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-   -   Yet another turbo question... (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f75/yet-another-turbo-question-26995/)

dmcutter 08-26-2009 03:48 PM

Yet another turbo question...
 
This is in a similar vein to the '06 turbo upgrade thread below, but more of a low rent variety. I just scored a TurboXS TMIC for fairly cheap to complement my stage 2. There are a ton of used VF39s and not quite so many VF43s floating around out there for $300 and $500 respectively. Another C-note or less for a fuel pump and voila, as much HP as I will probably ever need (yeah right). Well, a protune, of course, but one of those would likely be in the cards anyway. I don't care about making 350 whp, I honestly believe I could be satisfied with 270-280, something like that.

Has anyone who has gone from a TD04 to a VF39 or 43 regretted doing it? Are those crappy and not worth bolting on or are they a worthwhile upgrade? Is it risky enough buying a used one to warrant spending several hundred dollars more on a brand new one?

clord05wrx 08-26-2009 03:52 PM

IMO if I had the money I would buy the new one especially with a turbo. You dont know how the person drove the car and how bad a used one might be then your just s**t out of luck on the money you just spent. Like they always say "You get what you pay for" just my 2 cents.

04wrxhart 08-26-2009 04:57 PM

Have you looked into the FP68HTA turbo ? Brand new there 800-900 bucks and I've heard nothing but greatness from them. Its the new hybrid turbo. Its suppose to flow like a 18g but spool like a 16g. Anywho, with a conservative tune, 270-280 whp wont be a problem. I think the limit of these turbos is somewhere around 300-310whp and for the price you cant beat it. Just one more option. Good luck.

slipknot9mt 08-27-2009 07:26 AM

vf39
 
[quote=dmcutter;229383]This is in a similar vein to the '06 turbo upgrade thread below, but more of a low rent variety. I just scored a TurboXS TMIC for fairly cheap to complement my stage 2. There are a ton of used VF39s and not quite so many VF43s floating around out there for $300 and $500 respectively. Another C-note or less for a fuel pump and voila, as much HP as I will probably ever need (yeah right). Well, a protune, of course, but one of those would likely be in the cards anyway. I don't care about making 350 whp, I honestly believe I could be satisfied with 270-280, something like that.

Has anyone who has gone from a TD04 to a VF39 or 43 regretted doing it? Are those crappy and not worth bolting on or are they a worthwhile upgrade? Is it risky enough buying a used one to warrant spending several hundred dollars more on a brand new one?[/quote]


IMO, you can easily make your goal on a vf39. Spend the couple extra bucks to find one that has low miles on it from a good owner. With supporting mods, my 05sti is expected to make 350ish whp on the stock turbo with no meth. Granted, I have a lot of supporting modifications, but I plan on going bigger in the future. I had an 07wrx that was stage 2 and when I climbed into this car, it was night and day.

a vf39 with catless turbo-back and a stage 2 tune will almost get you to your goal with nothing else. Get a protune with a few extras and you'd be done.


And to answer the other post about the forced performance turbo, just spend the extra couple hundred and get the FP Green. I have a friend who's making 406awhp on an fp green with meth. I have personally driven his car and was AMAZED at how well this turbo spools. If I get an upgrade down the road, I'm already sold on the FP Green. Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.!Thumbs Up

Kjott21 08-27-2009 06:15 PM

The VF39 on the 2.5L motor is a decent turbo. Spools fast and has a decent power output. I think that it is a solid upgrade for you.

dmcutter 08-28-2009 06:51 AM

Is there a functional difference between the VF39 and the VF43? I know Cobb has OTS maps for the 39 and the 18G; I want to be able to bolt up the turbo and run an OTS map until I can get the protune done. Would the 39 map work for the 43?

PowerHouse 08-29-2009 12:13 AM

[quote=slipknot9mt;229426]IMO, you can easily make your goal on a vf39. Spend the couple extra bucks to find one that has low miles on it from a good owner. With supporting mods, my 05sti is expected to make 350ish whp on the stock turbo with no meth. Granted, I have a lot of supporting modifications, but I plan on going bigger in the future. I had an 07wrx that was stage 2 and when I climbed into this car, it was night and day.

a vf39 with catless turbo-back and a stage 2 tune will almost get you to your goal with nothing else. Get a protune with a few extras and you'd be done.


And to answer the other post about the forced performance turbo, just spend the extra couple hundred and get the FP Green. I have a friend who's making 406awhp on an fp green with meth. I have personally driven his car and was AMAZED at how well this turbo spools. If I get an upgrade down the road, I'm already sold on the FP Green. Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.!Thumbs Up[/quote]

i would say a green is a bit out of the OP's goals. not to mention he would have to upgrade injectors, fuel pump(might wanna do this anyway) and bring greater risk to cracking that #4 ringland.

the advantage of getting a vf39(i've also seen hairline WG cracks on 43's) is that it can easily be replaced, found, and for a rather inexpensive amount, considering the benefits it provides. your stock fuel system would be able to handle such an upgrade. problem is that, yes, a used turbo is always a bit scary to put on your car AND for a a little more money you can purchase the HTA68.

the vf39 is a great turbo to make everyday driving more fun, especially if you are cruising around plenty of twists and turns. a 20g-green is a bit less fun to drive but provides a lot of enjoyment in case the c5 zo6 pulls up next to you. having gone through all these turbos, i opted for something a bit different with a version 8 turbo twin scroll vf37 setup. almost the same size as the 39 but spools much faster, especially with the supporting mods.

to answer your original question, the only regrets i get from people who go from td04 to vf39 is that they wish they had gone bigger. everyone says,ï'll be happy with just the 270-280whp; i don't need anymore than that." until the oragne srt4 with orange wheels, orange hat, and orange shirt blows by them in the middle of a snow storm with his windows down and heater on full blast. of course you should decide what you want to do with your car.

DD = vf39
autoX = vf39
street racer...-hta68 or +
drag = forever 21
road course = any of the above + helmet. they don't sell those at forever 21.

S.O.V 08-29-2009 08:10 PM

[quote=PowerHouse;229534]i would say a green is a bit out of the OP's goals. not to mention he would have to upgrade injectors, fuel pump(might wanna do this anyway) and bring greater risk to cracking that #4 ringland.

the advantage of getting a vf39(i've also seen hairline WG cracks on 43's) is that it can easily be replaced, found, and for a rather inexpensive amount, considering the benefits it provides. your stock fuel system would be able to handle such an upgrade. problem is that, yes, a used turbo is always a bit scary to put on your car AND for a a little more money you can purchase the HTA68.

the vf39 is a great turbo to make everyday driving more fun, especially if you are cruising around plenty of twists and turns. a 20g-green is a bit less fun to drive but provides a lot of enjoyment in case the c5 zo6 pulls up next to you. having gone through all these turbos, i opted for something a bit different with a version 8 turbo twin scroll vf37 setup. almost the same size as the 39 but spools much faster, especially with the supporting mods.

to answer your original question, the only regrets i get from people who go from td04 to vf39 is that they wish they had gone bigger. everyone says,ï'll be happy with just the 270-280whp; i don't need anymore than that." until the oragne srt4 with orange wheels, orange hat, and orange shirt blows by them in the middle of a snow storm with his windows down and heater on full blast. of course you should decide what you want to do with your car.

DD = vf39
autoX = vf39
street racer...-hta68 or +
drag = forever 21
road course = any of the above + helmet. they don't sell those at forever 21.[/quote]

I found this analysis to be great, among the best I have seen when answering a turbo upgrade question so far. Your explanation made the differences between the turbos very tangible. My only question is, where do you think an 18g fits in there?

dmcutter 08-29-2009 09:48 PM

I've been emailing back and forth a lot with Clark Turner and he said the best bang for the buck using the stock fuel system (injectors, anyway) was the Evo 3 16G. And after reading Powerhouse's analysis, I have to agree-if I ended up maxed out at 280 whp I would be kicking myself for not having spent a few hundred bucks more for 30 more hp. I'm leaning heavily in that direction now, especially since buying a used turbo is a crapshoot. I've been around long enough to know that there is a reason people say "you get what you pay for".

c2bcoolwrx 08-29-2009 10:50 PM

IMHO for a 2.5L you have to go 8cm exhaust side, whether it be a EVO3 16G 8cm or TD05H-18G 8cm. The 2.5L really needs the 8cm exhaust side, many tuners over on NASIOC have actually claimed it spools better than a 7cm on a 2.5L.

Personally, I have a Blouch TD05H-18G 8cm on my 2.5L (EJ257 hybrid build) and I love it. It is great for a Daily Driver, AutoX, and has an awesome powerband.

Also, I would not skimp and use the stock injectors as they tend to max out pretty quickly. Deatschwerks injectors will give you $200 when you trade your stockers in, 750ccs are about $400 (so after the trade in they will be $200).

newtothegame 08-29-2009 11:03 PM

That 16G on the 2.5 will be a nice setup. Not much lag, and a good kick to it. What size injectors are you looking at getting? And have you made a decision on the TMIC yet? Best of luck with your decision man.

PowerHouse 08-30-2009 01:27 AM

[quote=S.O.V;229580]I found this analysis to be great, among the best I have seen when answering a turbo upgrade question so far. Your explanation made the differences between the turbos very tangible. My only question is, where do you think an 18g fits in there?[/quote]

personally, and this is not from personal experience, i would go HTA68 over an 18g. i realize this is not exactly what you are asking for but the HTA68 is essentially an 18g with 16g spool. something i read and also john@cobb swears by. i was really curious about these HTA turbos so i went to cobb and i found out they have tuned a few of these.

in my opinion, the HTA68 is the PERFECT turbo as far as cost, reliability, power, response, performance, and streetability.

cost - it is around $800. very inexpensive considering what it is capable of pulling of. see nasioc's proven power section regarding HTA 68's

reliability - i've had a chance to look at this turbo side by side with my 20g, made from the same company and i can say it is much higher quality than the stuff FP used to make. my visuals aside; because this turbo can make such good power, it is a lot easier to see how far this thing can go on "ones" car and then turn down the power and still be at a satisfactory power level for the street. you can always turn things up for competative racing.

power - again, see nasioc's proven power section regarding HTA 68's. if i remember correctly there were a few people who hve been able to push over 350whp on cobbs mustang dyno. that's great performance.

response - this turbo spools insanely fast for what it is and how much power it can put out. the new HTA technology is something i wish was available for every turbo. unfortunately FP only fits these wheels to a few garrett turbos and their own snails, which is why i am waiting to see if they will ever fit this to something like Tomei's twinscroll 20g with jdm spec c flange which is supposed to be released october or my own vf37 upgraded to an HTA 20g wheel.

performance - check power and reliability

streetability - i'd imagine this turbo would be INSANELY fun to drive around every day. it has the capability to have a nice run through the mountains, a stop at the track, a run with the vette on central blvd, and a moderately decent price to be rebuilt(less than $500 from FP) or replaced completely.

of course this is ALL speculation but i feel that it is accurate in most aspects. if i didn't already have a jdm header, up-pipe, downpipe, and turbo i'd pick this up in a heartbeat and run it on E85 with some good timing. my ideals. hope it helps.

PowerHouse 08-30-2009 01:29 AM

[quote=c2bcoolwrx;229587]IMHO for a 2.5L you have to go 8cm exhaust side, whether it be a EVO3 16G 8cm or TD05H-18G 8cm. The 2.5L really needs the 8cm exhaust side, many tuners over on NASIOC have actually claimed it spools better than a 7cm on a 2.5L.

Personally, I have a Blouch TD05H-18G 8cm on my 2.5L (EJ257 hybrid build) and I love it. It is great for a Daily Driver, AutoX, and has an awesome powerband.

Also, I would not skimp and use the stock injectors as they tend to max out pretty quickly. Deatschwerks injectors will give you $200 when you trade your stockers in, 750ccs are about $400 (so after the trade in they will be $200).[/quote]

upgrading your fuel system is ALWAYS a bonus. it's better to have too much fuel then air i always say. plus with an upgraded fuel system and parts setup it is nice to be able to upgrade/downgrade turbos by simply just replacing the turbo.

dmcutter 08-30-2009 09:33 AM

This is a classic example of what we call "scope creep" in the engineering world. I initially started out thinking about dropping $300 for a used VF39 and $70 for a fuel pump and calling it a day. Then we get the "might as well do this while we're doing that" and it becomes an $800 turbo and injectors...but since I already have the TurboXS tmic inbound, I might as well do it right...

Sounds like the HTA68 is comparable to the Evo 3 costwise and it does look like an impressive performer.

PowerHouse 08-30-2009 01:37 PM

it seems that is always the way it works with modifying. there's always a bit more you can do for a bit more and more. i am at a pretty comfortable spot with performance now myself, but i am dreading to have to get in depth with suspension.


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