Turbo Upgrade...please help - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #1 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Turbo Upgrade...please help

I have an 06' wrx with supporting mods: cobb stage 2 and spt intake. I'm in the process of upgrading my turbo and after extensive research this is what I have so far and need some experienced help...Just would like to get the most out of my setup.

I'm looking to get around 325-350 whp if possible?

Future Mod List:
-Forced Performance 68HTA turbo
-Forced Performance AVCS oil supply line
-TurboXS TMIC
-Grimmspeed 3-port EBCS
-Walbro 255 lph
-Grimmspeed 38mm ewg up pipe kit
-DW 750cc injectors
-E85 Tune

Questions:
1. Do i go with the 7 or 8cm turbine housing and do I stick with the stock (8psi) actuator or upgrade to the high pressure (14psi) actuator?

2. Should I get the turbo ported? What is the benefit?

3. Is it worth converting to an EWG with this turbo setup?

4. Will this setup destroy my stock tranny?

5. How does this setup look...anything I'm missing or should add?

Comments will be greatly appreciated and thank you to everyone in advance for your input!!
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post #2 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 06:47 PM
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1. I would do 8cm on the 2.5L. I would get the upgraded actuator, but you don't need it if you're getting EWG, in that case go for the 1bar spring on the EWG. You'll need to block off the IWG by welding or getting a bracket from GrimmSpeed to hold it shut.
2. Not worth it.
3. EWG is always fun and offers the best boost control when combined with the 3-port. It's optional at this point.
4. Yes, no, maybe. Bet on it though.
5. Looks pretty solid. I would throw a new turbo inlet in there while you have it all torn apart. I would also not do E85 if you only want 325-350. You'll be high 300's if you go with E85 and that's blowing up stock engine and transmission territory. Those 750's won't be big enough for E85 either. If you do insist on E85 get some 1000cc Injector Dynamics and you'll be all set. You can still sell your stock injectors to Deatschwerks for a couple hundred bucks back.

-Chris
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post #3 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RcrsWetDream View Post
1. I would do 8cm on the 2.5L. I would get the upgraded actuator, but you don't need it if you're getting EWG, in that case go for the 1bar spring on the EWG. You'll need to block off the IWG by welding or getting a bracket from GrimmSpeed to hold it shut.
2. Not worth it.
3. EWG is always fun and offers the best boost control when combined with the 3-port. It's optional at this point.
4. Yes, no, maybe. Bet on it though.
5. Looks pretty solid. I would throw a new turbo inlet in there while you have it all torn apart. I would also not do E85 if you only want 325-350. You'll be high 300's if you go with E85 and that's blowing up stock engine and transmission territory. Those 750's won't be big enough for E85 either. If you do insist on E85 get some 1000cc Injector Dynamics and you'll be all set. You can still sell your stock injectors to Deatschwerks for a couple hundred bucks back.
Thanks for the advice! Greatly appreciate it!

In terms of the tranny (not very knowledgeable in that topic yet) what would be your suggestion on upgrades or should I just go with a more conservative tune? At what HP does the stock tranny start to go to hell?

Thanks again!
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post #4 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry you kinda already answered my question about the tranny....i accidentally read over it. So what is the safe zone in terms of stock engine and tranny?
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post #5 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 07:54 PM
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Stock engine is usually ok at or under 350 whp/tq. Transmission is really hit and miss. Some guys run them with a lot of tq, some guys break them with 300tq. Only thing you can really do is keep a stock clutch in there to act as a sort of fuse to keep the transmission safe. Other than that you need to build the transmission with some aftermarket gears or do a full STI 6-speed swap.

-Chris
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post #6 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 08:51 PM
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the tranny can blow 2 ways. 1. under power like a 3rd gear pull or 2. shifting hard and the sudden power breaks teeth on a gear just like the first way or syncos or something else breaks from the sudden power. a weak clutch is only going to help the second way. the only thing to help the first way is not have the power there to being with. from what ive read 3rd gear breaks most. it could be from a power shift or it just cant take the pressure like a above 350wtq and the teeth snap off. drive it nice and keep it low and you should be fine.

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http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #7 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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the tranny can blow 2 ways. 1. under power like a 3rd gear pull or 2. shifting hard and the sudden power breaks teeth on a gear just like the first way or syncos or something else breaks from the sudden power. a weak clutch is only going to help the second way. the only thing to help the first way is not have the power there to being with. from what ive read 3rd gear breaks most. it could be from a power shift or it just cant take the pressure like a above 350wtq and the teeth snap off. drive it nice and keep it low and you should be fine.
When you say "a weak clutch is only going to help the second way." Do you mean in terms of a safety measure or "help" in terms of increasing the likelihood of my transmission breaking?

I'm typically pretty easy on my car but have the occascioly "get on it mentality" as we all do. I just don't want to do these upgrades and then blow my tranny from having fun here and there.

In that being said would it be worth the investment to get a "PPG 1st to 4th Straight Cut Synchro Gearset?" Or investing in an STI transmission? Or like you said "drive nice" and not worry about tranny upgrades?

Thanks for the input!!
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post #8 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 09:27 PM
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PPG Helical Gears will be more than enough for you.

The way I'm doing it is I'm not worried about my transmission.... It'll blow eventually and I know I'll go PPG. Until then I'm enjoying it and saving money for the engine and trans build... Engine done.

-Chris
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post #9 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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PPG Helical Gears will be more than enough for you.

The way I'm doing it is I'm not worried about my transmission.... It'll blow eventually and I know I'll go PPG. Until then I'm enjoying it and saving money for the engine and trans build... Engine done.
Very true...did you do your engine build all at once or do it in intervals?
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post #10 of 85 Old 05-16-2011, 11:32 PM
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Only difference in your car and Chris's car is that he has LGT style gears. The 02-07wrxs have the gears that can and will break with "get on it" driving with just 300whp/tq range. It may last you a while with reasonable driving. But, even NewToTheGame replaced his gears with his last deployment and was glad he did when he saw his old 07 gears come out. I wish he'd get back on here, but he told me everything on my cell.

Btw, Josh runs 326 whp/319 tq and that was enough to start beating up his gears. A 325whp goal will be possible with pump gas on the turbo you are looking at but, a 350whp goal will need more mods or E85 tune to get over 350whp.

Kirt
378awhp/373wtq Custom Dom 3 & CBRD tuned 2006 STI.
"When in doubt...flat out" - Colin McRae
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post #11 of 85 Old 05-17-2011, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
Very true...did you do your engine build all at once or do it in intervals?
Intervals... I have a very slow growing car fund (auto deposits every pay day!Laugh!) so I just wait for that to get up to a point and then drop a bunch of money on the car. I bought the blown block back in July last year and it took until about February to get the short block built based on how much my fund grows. Any other way I can make money it just goes right into the car fund too.... Sexual favors, flipping car parts, it's all for the car fund.

Next I'm doing the fuel system, then getting my clutch, then everything for the heads, then onto the turbo and intake goodies to push the car past 400whp/tq.

The power you're looking for is still relatively safe for the block given a good tune, but the transmission will be the thing to worry about since you have pre-08 gears. Guys can blow those with stock power levels due to bad driving habits, and others push the power you're looking for without issue. It's really a crap shoot.

-Chris
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post #12 of 85 Old 05-17-2011, 01:41 AM Thread Starter
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Only difference in your car and Chris's car is that he has LGT style gears. The 02-07wrxs have the gears that can and will break with "get on it" driving with just 300whp/tq range. It may last you a while with reasonable driving. But, even NewToTheGame replaced his gears with his last deployment and was glad he did when he saw his old 07 gears come out. I wish he'd get back on here, but he told me everything on my cell.

Btw, Josh runs 326 whp/319 tq and that was enough to start beating up his gears. A 325whp goal will be possible with pump gas on the turbo you are looking at but, a 350whp goal will need more mods or E85 tune to get over 350whp.
Thanks for the info. I think I'll probably go for a good conservative tune for the time being until i can afford a tranny upgrade and just take it easy.

What is your opinion on the GS 38mm ewg vs 44mm? Also is it worth it to upgrade to the Tial wastegate for an additional $260 on the 38mm and an additional $360 on the 44mm :eek:

Brett
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Dom 2.5 XT-R
430 awhp 428 awtq
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post #13 of 85 Old 05-17-2011, 01:47 AM Thread Starter
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Intervals... I have a very slow growing car fund (auto deposits every pay day!Laugh!) so I just wait for that to get up to a point and then drop a bunch of money on the car. I bought the blown block back in July last year and it took until about February to get the short block built based on how much my fund grows. Any other way I can make money it just goes right into the car fund too.... Sexual favors, flipping car parts, it's all for the car fund.

Next I'm doing the fuel system, then getting my clutch, then everything for the heads, then onto the turbo and intake goodies to push the car past 400whp/tq.

The power you're looking for is still relatively safe for the block given a good tune, but the transmission will be the thing to worry about since you have pre-08 gears. Guys can blow those with stock power levels due to bad driving habits, and others push the power you're looking for without issue. It's really a crap shoot.
Lol that's some good stuff !Laugh! Thanks for giving me the DL on your build, I really like your approach. Unfortunately I'm going to have to take the crap shoot as I don't have money to upgrade my gears right now...so I'm just going to have to be really careful till then.

Also, what is your opinion on the GS 38mm ewg vs 44mm? Is it worth it to upgrade to the Tial wastegate for an additional $260 on the 38mm and an additional $360 on the 44mm?

Brett
2006 WRX TR
Dom 2.5 XT-R
430 awhp 428 awtq
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post #14 of 85 Old 05-17-2011, 09:20 AM
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Ok this is going to be some technical turbo talk, but stick with me here....

IMHO the FP 68HTA is not a good match for a 2.5L. The 68HTA is a 16G with a big billet turbine wheel crammed into it with an undersized TD05 housing. This really chockes it on the 2.5L and it is kind of like the cheaper TD05 housing 18Gs that SBR produces, which just don't produce as much power as an 18G in a TD06 housing (i.e. the Blouch 18G).

Many people will point you to numbers and dyno charts of the FP 68HTA vs. the 18G, but that does not tell the whole story. Noteable tuners on NASIOC have all said the same thing....Off boost response, area under the curve (useable power), and driveabilty are all better with an TD05H-18G 8cm (TD06 Housing). My local tuner has tuned quite a few 2.5L WRXs/STis with the FP 68HTA and Blouch TD05H-18g 8cm. He says numbers are always very close, but everytime he goes for a test drive the Blouch 18G just feels better on the street.

Also, by the time you pay to swap out the 7cm housing which the FP 68HTA comes with to an 8cm you might as well have gotten a Blouch TD05H-18G (which uses the true TD06 housing) or Blouch 18G-XT. Last, FP has stopped producing the 68HTA and they are no longer available for sale new.

Do your homework, search some threads on NASIOC the info is all there. Just make sure to get an 8cm exhaust side as that is a MUST for a 2.5L and really lets it breath.

Edit:

EWG while good is unnessary for a DDer. 8cm and a good tune and you will not have any issues with creep. IMHO EWGs are loud and obnoxious (yes I know t is only when you get on it), but our cars are loud enough as it is. Also, I have been running a Blouch TD05H-18G 8cm since '08 on my 5-speed (EJ257 Hybrid swap). My frist tune at 16PSI (had for about 2 years) made 320whp/288wtrq and my current tune at 19PSI (last 6-7 months or so) makes 332whp/338wtrq. Both tunes are for 93 octane.

Finally, 750cc injectors are not going to be enough for E85. You will need at least 850ccs if not 1000s. I would definitely discuss this with your tuner and do what he recommends.
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post #15 of 85 Old 05-17-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
Thanks for the info. I think I'll probably go for a good conservative tune for the time being until i can afford a tranny upgrade and just take it easy.

What is your opinion on the GS 38mm ewg vs 44mm? Also is it worth it to upgrade to the Tial wastegate for an additional $260 on the 38mm and an additional $360 on the 44mm :eek:
The upgrade that you are talking about is the actual part that makes the UP EWG. So, yeah you are going to want a Tial Wastegate. Its up to you which size you want, but my tuner put a 44mm on mine because he said with my Cobb DP and how the CAT is further down the tube. That the CAT not being in the way there was extra room for the 44mm. With other set-ups it might be hard to squeeze a 44mm in there. I have my EWG recirculated because I didn't want to hear the EWG. Its not necessary on a DD, but it can help. If I had head work then I probably would not have done it. Head work might be in my future though. If I can ever fight the mod bug...lol.

The advise so far is very good from everyone.

Kirt
378awhp/373wtq Custom Dom 3 & CBRD tuned 2006 STI.
"When in doubt...flat out" - Colin McRae
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