AP and 18G - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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AP and 18G

So I know I've read it in countless posts that in order to do a turbo upgrade its recommended to get ALL the supporting mods ie. bigger injectors fuel pump blah blah blah...well I was just chekin out cobbs site and their mapnotes for 93 octane w/ the FP18G turbo, it doesnt say anything about injectors or anything like that...just says map is for use w/ TBE and STI or equivelant intercooler...so wtf? So I can buy a FP18g turbo and a sti intercooler and be set?? Z

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post #2 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 02:14 AM
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You may be able to run it with the 06 injectors(since they are the bigger), but i would suggest you get some bigger ones and a pro-tune. If your on a budget, Whitch Hunter Performance will mod all 4 of your stock injectors for $100.
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post #3 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 06:47 AM
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COBB reccomends NOT to change the injectors and fuel pump. If you do, the AP will not support the changes. Plain and simple.
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post #4 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 12:14 PM
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look at it from cobb's perspective. Each injector would need it's own map. The only injectors that they've ever made maps for are "stock" and "pinks". The 06 uses injectors about the same size as pinks so there's really no gain there. In other words, Cobb has no choice but to use stock injectors on that map and scale back the fuel. You'll get huge gains out of an upgraded fuel system and a tune over cobb's map.

Again, cobb's maps are BASE maps. They're not tuned for your particular setup and they're not tuned for your particular car!

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post #5 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mosc View Post
Again, cobb's maps are BASE maps. They're not tuned for your particular setup and they're not tuned for your particular car!
Yeah sometimes people seem to forget that. They think I flashed a map so my tuning is complete....I'm not specifying anyone in particular, just saying in general. It costs the most but everyone who mods their car should be protuned, and if you can DIY more power to you.....I hope to be there one day, tuning cars.

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post #6 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Ok thanx for the input guys. So I CAN just buy a fp18g and a STI intercooler and run w/ cobb's base map for that setup which will still probably be a nice gain in HP and TQ compared w/ the stg2 setup, but in order to get the BIG gains out of the setup its optimal to get the supporting mods and a protune....so w/ this protune...is this something that a protuner can download onto my ap and I can use that map like the others that came w/ the ap?

Edit: So I answered my last question and now have another. I spoke w/ Patrick from boxer4racing in NC about tuning, he said for a protune right now @ stg2 they usually see an increase of 10-30hp/tq and it would cost around 400 for a couple hours on the dyno...anyone ever heard of these guys boxer4racing? Figures/spendage seem right? Also he said that for the 18G he didnt like the FP make and mentioned another brand forgot sry, and all I would need is a fuel pump uprade no injectors...Z

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post #7 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 04:54 PM
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first question is YES

Second question matters on what you want out of it. You could use the stock IC and fuel if you really wanted to, it just wouldn't give much gains.

Personally, I think buying a turbo is silly if you're going to use stock injectors. You can pretty much max them out on the stocker with far less lag. Why are you so resistant to keep the stock injectors? They cost a lot less than a turbo swap!

Also, why are you going STi TMIC? It's pretty small even for a VF39 let alone an 18G. If you're buying something new to begin with, might as well get something a lot bigger.

If you're trying to do this on the cheap, a better bet is used VF39/43 + used STi TMIC + fuel pump + pro-tune

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post #8 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Well, ya I am trying to go the cheap route...I think right now I have to just sit back and enjoy the stg2that I just recently installed...The modding bug bit me bad though and I'm just trying to figure out which path to follow, the VF39/43 is the STI turbo right?? Arent they a little limited? I think with the 18G I'll hve more options to get alot more HP in the long run, am I right?

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post #9 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 05:45 PM
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LMAO!! The sti's turbo is "a little bit limited" but your stock fuel pump is not? HA!

Sorry... Yeah, the VF39/43 is off of an STi. even if you go that route, I'd swap the fuel pump before a pro-tune. The tune's $400 an the fuel pump is like $75... why bottleneck yourself through a cheap ass part?

The 18G is a much bigger turbo but you're still talking about a small STi top mount and stock injectors (fuel pump aside). You're not going to come close to full utilization. Two good routes:

no pro-tune
-leave it at stage 2. You'd prob get more gains/$ pro-tuning a stage 2 than you would using a base map on some upgraded turbo.

Cheap turbo swap
-Used VF39/43 (~$250)
-Used STi TMIC (~$250)
-Fuel Pump ($75)
-Tune ($400)

Nice turbo swap
-new 18G ($750)
-new TMIC ($700)
-injectors ($250)
-fuel pump ($75)
-Tune ($400)

I don't think you get very good hp/$ if you do something in between

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post #10 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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"LMAO!! The sti's turbo is "a little bit limited" but your stock fuel pump is not? HA!"
I meant limited as in the long run like I said in the next sentence, meaning I plan on having the car for a while and having big plans for it...the STI turbo would be a pointless purchase for me if I could only go so far with it/get so much out of it, when I could get the 18g in the first place and go from there. I just think it would be pointless to get a VF39 in my case.Z

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post #11 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 07:39 PM
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ah, I see where you're coming from. I think you're better off just saving then. If you have bigger goals in mind but can't afford them yet, doing something half way may not help you much...

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post #12 of 25 Old 03-10-2008, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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HA! Cant wait to get out of college....and start makin bank..guess I'll have to be happy w/ what I have right now...Z

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post #13 of 25 Old 03-11-2008, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmanoside View Post
HA! Cant wait to get out of college....and start makin bank..guess I'll have to be happy w/ what I have right now...Z
Stay as long as you can, the real world blows.

Mike
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post #14 of 25 Old 03-11-2008, 11:25 AM
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Mosc,
I beg to differ, I think there is a big gain on the 18g/TMIC STI or equivelent. Right around 300wh is a 60-65 horse jump from stage 2 (safely). I am protecting this because it is my next project and have looked into getting a protune. I see what you are saying, but if you aren't going to get a protune "right away" then let the map be what it is. I cannot get a protune right after I dump 1500.00 on a TMIC and 18g. (maybe he can) Even though a 100.00 Walbro and bigger injectors (250.00) ..... where..? Isn't that much. But the best price I have seen on "good" injectors is 500.00+. Stop me if I am going off base.
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-11-2008, 11:42 AM
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modded stock injectors work fine and don't cost $500...

-You're not going to make 300whp on cobb's base map for an 18G with the stock fuel system.
-I didn't say there were no gains, I said it wasn't cost effective. An 18G costs money after all. Other things he could spend money on right now like a pro-tune would do about the same. The STi TMIC is a throw away because he clearly wants more than that base map is going to give him pretty soon. Cobb's got a map for it. People do it. It's not going to hurt anything. I just wanted to point out the inherent compromise of that setup really stuck between to much better options.

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