How come? - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 12-09-2008, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Question How come?

Me and my brother were talking about all the super engines the other day.... You know, the Nissan RB26DETT, Toyota 2JZGTE, even the Mistubishi 4G63, etc. And he asked me why we've never seen a 900-1000hp Subaru EJ motor before. So, why haven't I? Do they just become really unreliable after ~600whp or something? I've seen plenty in the 400-600whp range, but never anything more. Anyone know why?

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post #2 of 31 Old 12-09-2008, 07:45 PM
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post #3 of 31 Old 12-09-2008, 10:34 PM
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There is a video of one on youtube with 798 AWHP and one was in a tuner mag that had 810AWHP. The first was a bugeye, not sure about mods and all. The second was an STI, but not street legal in the least bit. I know there is also a green one I have seen before that is sponsored by JE, and some others, custom turbo mount the whole nine, AWD with slicks, just dont know the numbres.

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post #4 of 31 Old 12-10-2008, 12:00 AM
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This is probably all bench marking and what not. But, it's what? About 30% drivetrain loss? 810 AWHP should be 1000+ HP crank? I don't know the exact answer...because I can come up with different numbers by not being sure which math is right. Now, 900-1,000 AWHP is a lot hard then a 2JZGTE RWD HP numbers. Nevermind the fact that: Skylines and Supras start off with a distinct advantage of having 6 cylinders. Apples to Oranges and I can see this thread being locked. Heh

Plus, I'd like to see some evidence of a 4G63 that high in the numbers. I'm sure they're out there. But, i'm sure it's just as hard to get them just as high.
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post #5 of 31 Old 12-10-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turmic View Post
Plus, I'd like to see some evidence of a 4G63 that high in the numbers. I'm sure they're out there. But, i'm sure it's just as hard to get them just as high.
I seen the AMS evo at HIN Chicago dyno at over 1100awhp in person. There is a video on youtube somewhere I believe.
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post #6 of 31 Old 12-10-2008, 07:22 PM
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post #7 of 31 Old 12-10-2008, 11:52 PM
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post #8 of 31 Old 12-11-2008, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turmic View Post
This is probably all bench marking and what not. But, it's what? About 30% drivetrain loss? 810 AWHP should be 1000+ HP crank? I don't know the exact answer...because I can come up with different numbers by not being sure which math is right. Now, 900-1,000 AWHP is a lot hard then a 2JZGTE RWD HP numbers. Nevermind the fact that: Skylines and Supras start off with a distinct advantage of having 6 cylinders. Apples to Oranges and I can see this thread being locked. Heh

Plus, I'd like to see some evidence of a 4G63 that high in the numbers. I'm sure they're out there. But, i'm sure it's just as hard to get them just as high.
There's a ton of 1000+awhp Evos out there. Well sure the 2jz is rwd and rb26 are 6cyl, but still. The 4g63 has been known to produce similar numbers. I just don't know why the EJ hasn't ever come close.... I guess it's just the design. Or no1 has ever bothered to try. Just recently some of the tuner mags held a Castrol Syntec motor build challenge: Castrol Syntec Top Shop Challenge - Engine Build-Up Challenge and Custom Built Engine Sweepstakes and a 4G63 won the competition over an RB26, SR20, Chevy 350, VQ35, Audi 80 2.3 liter 20v, and a Honda F22. The 4g63 won the power battle with over 1000+hp which is obviously, around 500hp per liter. Unfortunately for us Suby guys, I don't think an EJ can come close to that level.... !Cry! Lol....


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I know there is also a green one I have seen before that is sponsored by JE, and some others, custom turbo mount the whole nine, AWD with slicks, just dont know the numbres.
Oh yeah, I saw that in that magazine. That one was pretty awesome. Front-mount turbo son! Yeah, I can't remember the numbers either, but It should be up there in the 700-800's

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post #9 of 31 Old 12-11-2008, 03:24 PM
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My biggest thing when I bought my WRX was after seeing some of the torque numbers these cars put up compared to some of them also. Most EVOs in the same HP range dont compare to the torque of the subie (at least the 2.5L).

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post #10 of 31 Old 12-11-2008, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame View Post
My biggest thing when I bought my WRX was after seeing some of the torque numbers these cars put up compared to some of them also. Most EVOs in the same HP range dont compare to the torque of the subie (at least the 2.5L).
Hmm, that's very true.

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post #11 of 31 Old 12-11-2008, 07:31 PM
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to me that kinda power is so unnecessary unless you wanted to race a bougati (sp) and i highly highly doubt you will find one on the strip. o well to each there own. all i know is the most ill push my ej is ~3-500awhp, then again coming from a 120hp crank car the stock power on the wrx is blown me away lol
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post #12 of 31 Old 12-11-2008, 09:14 PM
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Thats a nice number to shoot around there srninjastar. Plenty of room to work with. I kind of agree that anything above the 500 HP (especially AWHP) range would be a bit too much for most to deal with. But again, each person is different.

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post #13 of 31 Old 12-11-2008, 10:42 PM
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The main reason is much more fundamental. It's a boxer motor. That means it doesn't handle high RPMs that well. 4G63s and 2JZs put down those absurd numbers by pushing 9000 or even 9500 RPMs. They are precision balanced custom motors indeed but unlike the EJ series, they are not horizontally opposed. The boxer motor would tear itself apart at 9500 rpms. That said, slap some beefier internals in an EJ257 along with a massive turbo and supporting mods and you can easily put down 600-800whp.

EJ's are just going to top out at ~8500rpms or so. The EJ207 is one of the highest revving horizontally opposed motors ever with a 8250rpm (that right?) redline but that's because it's one of the few with a forged crank from the factory and other beefy internals. Also, you need some serious octane to handle that without exploding, we don't see that from pumps out here so our cars aren't built to exploit it. The 4G63 doesn't handle those kind or RPMs in stock form either mind you, it's just a very widely used engine that people have figured out all the tricks for and can balance them extremely well.

Boxer motors have advantages of good torque for their displacement and they can be mounted very low and further back than most other configurations. This makes it ideally suited for AWD, stability, and rally but it is not ideally suited for being a dyno queen.

To make absurd numbers without absurd displacement, you need to spool some massive turbos which means you need some high revving, high octane, high heat goodness.

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post #14 of 31 Old 12-12-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
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I kind of agree that anything above the 500 HP (especially AWHP) range would be a bit too much for most to deal with.
My car gets a little squirrelly in the rain if I stomp it in 1st and 2nd going in a straight line with nobody else around. I bet having that much or more hp would be the same, but on dry pavement

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post #15 of 31 Old 12-12-2008, 11:25 AM
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Unfortunately for us Suby guys, I don't think an EJ can come close to that level....
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There are others floating around but it's hard to find web info.Alot were in magazines.Tony Rigoli Racing has built some along with Crawford Performance and Turbotrix.

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