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post #16 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Excellent info, thanks guys. I still have a lot to learn about this stuff.

My stock engine had ~93,900 miles when I installed the 20G. It lost compression and started blowing smoke at ~97,000. I'm not terribly upset because it lasted over 5 years and even though I kept up with maintenance, I was pretty hard on it.

Here's what I'm thinking for parts:

Manley Platinum Series Pistons
Manley H-Beam Connecting Rods
FHI Crank
ACL Race Rod/Main Bearings
ARP Head Studs
IAG TGV Deletes w/ Air Pump Block Off Plates
Kelford R-199-B 264 Cams
Killer B Ultimate Oil Pickup
GrimmSpeed Air/Oil Separator
GrimmSpeed 8 mm Phenolic Spacer
11 mm Oil Pump
and of course any necessary gaskets and hardware

I'm on the fence about Perrin fuel rails. Are they really necessary?

If the block needs to be bored, I'll go with oversized 100 mm pistons instead of the standard 99.5 mm.

If I need headwork, I might as well upgrade the valves/springs and have them bored.

Now is also probably the time to upgrade the clutch, but the stock clutch was in good shape when the transmission was rebuilt ~13k ago, so I'm on the fence about that one too.

John
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post #17 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 12:24 PM
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Ask them what the labor is to slap a new clutch in there.... If it's less than a $100... why not.

Paul
2002 WRX Sold
2007 WRX Sold
2007 STi totaled
2007 Foz XT sold
2007 MS3
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post #18 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man show View Post
Here's what I'm thinking for parts:

Manley Platinum Series Pistons - As long as they're NOT 4032, but 2618 alloy
Manley H-Beam Connecting Rods - What I'm using
FHI Crank - Do you even need one? Make sure the oem crank is good before dropping money on a new one
ACL Race Rod/Main Bearings - Yup
ARP Head Studs - Yup
IAG TGV Deletes w/ Air Pump Block Off Plates - Yup
Kelford R-199-B 264 Cams
Killer B Ultimate Oil Pickup
GrimmSpeed Air/Oil Separator
GrimmSpeed 8 mm Phenolic Spacer
11 mm Oil Pump - Not really a necessity unless you're running larger clearances, have extra oil NEEDS (oil cooler, added dual avcs, etc)to justify the bigger pump. Generally the bigger the pump with th less need for it, the more it just bypasses and heats up your oil.
and of course any necessary gaskets and hardware

I'm on the fence about Perrin fuel rails. Are they really necessary? - Nope. Unless you want to run a parallel setup, I know guys running gobs of power on oem rails

If the block needs to be bored, I'll go with oversized 100 mm pistons instead of the standard 99.5 mm. - It probably does, but see if you can go 99.75 before jumping to 100mm. The more meat on the walls the better, and pistons should be the same price.

If I need headwork, I might as well upgrade the valves/springs and have them bored.

Now is also probably the time to upgrade the clutch, but the stock clutch was in good shape when the transmission was rebuilt ~13k ago, so I'm on the fence about that one too.- You'll run through the stock clutch in no time with a 20g tuned for a built engine. ACT HD should be a good fit.
My thoughts in bold.

-Chris
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post #19 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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Yup, the Manley Pistons are 2618 alloy.

You're right, the 11 mm oil pump might be slightly overkill, but since I'll get a new one, I might as well upgrade it slightly. Compared to the 10 mm pump, it flows a 10% greater volume of oil and a higher pressure of 57 psi (vs. 43 psi). It's also recommended for cars making greater than 350 whp (I'm almost there) and those revving over 7,000 rpm (probably not there). It was also recommended that I use Motul 5W40 instead of Royal Purple 5W30. My thinking is that the more I can get the oil to circulate, the better. I'm still going to stick to 3k OCI's and use OEM filters, unless otherwise told.

I'm going to pass on fuel rails.

I'll ask about the crank, clutch, and 99.75 mm pistons.

Other parts:

GrimmSpeed 3 mm Phenolic Spacers
Invidia Up Pipe

John
07 WRX

Last edited by man show; 07-10-2012 at 05:49 PM.
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post #20 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 03:45 PM
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^The thing with oil pumps though, is bigger does not equal better. The pump can flow more oil, but if the engine doesn't need that much more oil, all it does it pick it up, then bypass it straight back into the pan. What that does is aerate and heat which are both bad for oil. Also, power has really no bearing on how big of an oil pump you need.

What you need to really look at are:
RPM's. More revs will need more pump
Main and Rod Clearances. Larger clearances need more pump
Items that add to your oil capacity. Larger pan, oil cooler, sump system, going from no or single avcs to dual avcs, etc. all add capacity requirements.

In my case, I went pretty liberal on my clearances and added 1.5 qts to my pan, so I can use the extra pump to keep up. I also plan on spinning to 8k on occasion.

I'm not trying to dictate your build or go against what your shop may be saying. In my eyes the oil pump is one of the things that most everybody sees as "bigger is better" when it's absolutely not the case. The thing you can do, is get a 10mm pump ported and polished, and clean up the oil passages on the block. That will get you more positive results than just throwing a pump that is too big for you needs on the build list.

Think about how the pump works, it's a mechanical pump driven off the timing belt. The faster the engine revs the more oil it flows. If you have no need for the extra 10% of oil have coming out of the pump you start to bypass earlier and all you do is aerate and heat. Not only that, but you didn't spin a bearing so you don't even need to replace or upgrade the pump.

Unless you know for a fact that you'll need the extra capacity, just get the passages on the block cleaned up (DON'T touch the oil pickup inlet on the block), get the pump cleaned up, and you'll be a happy camper.

-Chris
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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My crank showed some wear, so a new nitride-coated crank will be going in. Reusing the stock crank could be an opportunity to save a few bucks, but since it's such a vital part, I'm not going to skimp on it.

Since there was some bearing material in my oil pan, I'm also going to have to replace the oil pan and cooler with OEM units, and one of the spark plugs was saturated with oil and the rest weren't in great shape, so I'll get a new set of those as well. I really appreciate the information you posted and it does make sense Chris, but I'm still going to use the 11 mm oil pump instead of the 10 mm unit because of the additional pressure that will be available to fill the looser clearances in my engine.

99.75 mm pistons will be used so they only have to remove minimal material from the block.

The heads are completely fine, so they'll just reset the lash to be compatible with the cams.

Also, my clutch and flywheel were still completely fine, so they're going to be reused.

Any guesses how much additional power I might pick up after all is said and done?

John
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 07:33 PM
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Power pickup depends on how hard you want to push it. How many PSI were you pushing before hand? You should be able to hit the 350 AWHP mark with the engine if the tuner can get everything to co-operate together. Also your power could shift slightly with the cams. But from what I have heard and read it will just carry longer in the RPM range. You will be limited by your TMIC now, that will honestly be your limiting factor. I have seriously been contemplating getting one (but its wishful thinking at the time being). Also, there should really be no need to change your up pipe, unless the tuner thinks other wise. Mine was changed when I did my turbo swap, but was cause my stocker was jacked up.

And almost forget, your stock clutch probably wont be lasting too long. Im not sure how your driving habits are, but my clutch only lasted just over 8k miles after turbo upgrade.

Joshua
"2007 WRX- PPG'd, 20G- Tim Bailey tuned
Stage 2 2005 WRX
Cobbtuning.com"
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post #23 of 27 Old 07-10-2012, 11:47 PM
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Meh, doesn't the newer EJ255s use a 11mm oil pump any ways? I don't see it being that big of a deal. Because its not like the 3rd gen WRXs are really that different than the WRX 06-07 long blocks. Both are Single AVCS. I guess the main difference would be the oil pan...doesn't the 06-07 WRXs have that funky oil pan compared to the STIs? Which the STI oil pan is the same oil pan that is used in the 3rd gens. Probably why my tuner just decided to use the 11mm oil pump...its the same set-up pretty much. I guess I answered my own question there. LOL.

Kirt
378awhp/373wtq Custom Dom 3 & CBRD tuned 2006 STI.
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post #24 of 27 Old 07-11-2012, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Don't worry Kirt, I get what you're saying.

I don't really have a clue what kind of oil pressure I had before. From what I understand, the Prosport gauges are far from accurate (+/- 30% if I'm lucky) and it fluctuated anywhere from 20ish to 60ish (+/-) psi from what I remember, depending if I was driving under load, cruising, idling, or immediately after a cold start. I still enjoy the light show though

I'm just doing the up pipe as a "while you're there" mod. It's pretty much the last bit of the pre or post turbo piping that I haven't altered, so... larger diameter pipe, slightly quicker turbo spool, sure why not?

I'm not concerned about the clutch because I don't plan to change my driving habits significantly. I don't plan to track the car regularly, but I might try to sneak into a beginner HPDE event or two within the next year and if that's the case, I'd be more worried about the brakes and tires.

John
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post #25 of 27 Old 07-11-2012, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man show View Post
I'm still going to use the 11 mm oil pump instead of the 10 mm unit because of the additional pressure that will be available to fill the looser clearances in my engine.

Also, my clutch and flywheel were still completely fine, so they're going to be reused.
If you have looser clearances, then the pump is justified. I went 11mm and ported and polished pump.

Quote:
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And almost forget, your stock clutch probably wont be lasting too long. Im not sure how your driving habits are, but my clutch only lasted just over 8k miles after turbo upgrade.
This. My clutch started slipping after two passes down the strip when I went to E85. Granted, that was last October and I'm still driving on it with no issues. When I get on it 3rd gear and up it'll let go sometimes. If you can get the clutch done now, do it. I would guess it would be minimal labor since the engine is out anyways. If you have to do it later and have a shop do it you're looking at a good $500 bill just for labor.

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Meh, doesn't the newer EJ255s use a 11mm oil pump any ways?
Still 10. STI uses 11 from the dual avcs. There's a 12mm out there but it's from a JDM variant.

-Chris
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-11-2012, 06:45 PM
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Nice to know Chris....I'd have to dig out the old e-mails to verify. But, I think I have the 11mm. I'm not worried about it. I might end up throwing a monster turbo on it for higher rpms. So, it'll be justified at that point and I'm running AMSoil High Zinc oil anyways. So, I'm over killing it with safety.

Just because my work has been sending me down to maryland lately. I happened to spot something today on highway 140.











Fixed the IMG tags...wahoo

Kirt
378awhp/373wtq Custom Dom 3 & CBRD tuned 2006 STI.
"When in doubt...flat out" - Colin McRae

Last edited by turmic; 07-11-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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post #27 of 27 Old 07-11-2012, 10:58 PM Thread Starter
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That place looks oddly familiar, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

Believe it or not, I was actually there earlier today. Fortunately, you didn't capture my hooptie rental in any of your pics so there's no proof. I might or might not have dropped off some items and chatted with JJ and Rick for a bit. It might be safe to say that things are falling into place and I'll most likely be making it to the Hershey meet in September.

More parts:
GrimmSpeed turbo heat shield
Group-N engine mounts

This message will self-destruct in 10... 9... 8...

John
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