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Shifting part 2 heel and toe

5K views 21 replies 4 participants last post by  kawaigng 
#1 ·
This the method of downshifting in which the left foot depress the clutch and the right foot operate both the brake and the throttle. The throttle must be depress to get the engine speed up to match the revs requried at the current car speed in the newly select gear.
By classic definition, heel and toe refers to the process of using the front of the right foot to depress the brake while swinging the heel around to stab at the throttle. Usually a quick tab on the throttle is all that is require.
 
#2 ·
most cars now have a brake and gas peddle close enough together that i can have the left portion on my foot on the brake, and the right side of my foot on the gas. in my wrx, the brake has been designed so that as i apply moderate brake, it lines up with the gas quite nicly.

this might also be a good time to go into double clutch downshifts. they go hand in hand with a good heal toe :)
 
#4 ·
Do you mean the double clutch heel and toe down shifting? ( depress brake with right foot, drpess clutch with left foot, move shift lever to neutral, release clutch, quick stab at throttle with the outside edge of right foot, depress clutch, move shift lever to new gear, release clutch, release brake ) If so, it is a good way to protect the transmission. And if you install the sti padlle it will be easier to do the heel and toe. Have you never read the book name "secrets of solo racing"?
 
#6 ·
kawaigng said:
Do you mean the double clutch heel and toe down shifting? ( depress brake with right foot, drpess clutch with left foot, move shift lever to neutral, release clutch, quick stab at throttle with the outside edge of right foot, depress clutch, move shift lever to new gear, release clutch, release brake ) If so, it is a good way to protect the transmission. And if you install the sti padlle it will be easier to do the heel and toe. Have you never read the book name "secrets of solo racing"?
yes thats exactly what i mean.

no i have never read secrets of solo racing, but going faster for word of Danny Sulivan is an excelent book on driving technique
 
#13 ·
you can double clutch without using the heal toe technique. lets say your in 3rd gear, its as followes;

driving in 3rd - clutch in - move shifter to nutral - clutch out - blip throttle - clutch in - move shifter to 2nd - clutch out.

with practice it can be as quick as a single clutch downshift, or at least close enough to not make a diference on time. its a little easier on the tranny and the clutch, and its super smooth.


edit: oh, and just so no one gets confused, contrary to fast and the furious doctrine, no one in there right mind would double clutch on an up shift.

just thought i would get that out there.
 
#15 ·
Vew said:
Why would you have to clutch out when you rev it? Why can you clutch out, rev, and the slip it back in? Neutral is neutral whether it be clutch in or stick in the center... right?
Wrong. Declutching connects the engine crankshaft to the layshaft, so when you blip the gas with the clutch out in neutral, instead of just spinning up the flywheel, you are now spinning up the flywheel, clutch, layshaft w/gears and all the gears on the pinion shaft. Now when you go to select a lower gear, the pinion shaft speed and the pinion gear speed are much more closely matched and your synchros need to do less work to engage the collar to the gear.

See the following diagrams and read the bullets...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission3.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission5.htm

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
 
#16 ·
im not really sure if i understand you, so ill answer the two questions i think you could be asking.

clutchless shifting:

because a street car tranny has syncros in it, it is a lot harder (although not imposible) to do cluthless shifts. depending on my speed i can usualy shift from 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th without the clutch, and from 5th to 4th with a large blip. if you want to do clutchless shifts, just be sure you dont force is, and just keep a little pressure on the gear leaver untill it slides into gear.

why have clutch out for a plib in nutral:

yeah, your right, having the clutch depresed or having the tranny in nutral is "theoreticly" the same thing, the car is not in gear. the reason the clutch is released for the blip is it removes the slight increase in wear on the clutch from giving throttle with the clutch depressed (as far as i know). the only other thing i can thing of, is the fact that the gears start to slow down when the clutch is depresed. i dont know if that plays a role, i dont know the full working of a transmission, i can change lube and swap a gear bag and thats about it.
 
#18 ·
GarySheeha said:

How are you gary, I saw the vedio of the time trail you did in sears point. May I ask you few question, because you drove very nice.

On the decreasing speed left turn between the turn 1 and 2, I saw you oversteer for a little bite, did you do that in purpose to correct the turning angle or just brake a little bit too much, because I saw you countersteering.

Is that possible to use the left foot brake when you exiting the turn number 6 and the enter of turn 3a and turn 8a?


If I stay out longer on the enter of turn 6( later apex ), would that have a better control and angle for the exit?


and what size of tires and rims you were racing with?


Thank you very much. because my concept is not clear at all, thats why I ask you these question.
 
#19 ·
kawaigng said:
How are you gary, I saw the vedio of the time trail you did in sears point. May I ask you few question, because you drove very nice.
Just to clarify, that video was created during the first practice of a USTCC race weekend. There is another video on the site that show a view out the windshield with an inset of the steering wheel during the race. You will notice my gear choices changed a bit because as we dialed the car in, I was able to carry more speed through the corners. Here is the video... http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/2003 Sears Point 2 Lap.wmv
You'll notice I make a mistake trailbraking for turn 1 in this video and get some oversteer. Not a huge deal, but it did cost me a couple of tenths of a second that lap.

kawaigng said:
On the decreasing speed left turn between the turn 1 and 2, I saw you oversteer for a little bite, did you do that in purpose to correct the turning angle or just brake a little bit too much, because I saw you countersteering.
Yes, this was the transition off the throttle and onto the brakes. The car was still heavily loaded on the right side and as I lifted off the throttle the rear stepped out a bit. Braking made it stay out, but I needed to shed the speed for turn 2.

kawaigng said:
Is that possible to use the left foot brake when you exiting the turn number 6 and the enter of turn 3a and turn 8a?
I don't know why you would ever want to brake at the exit of a corner, especially turn 6 when you already don't have much front grip because the track is turning and dropping. As for turn 3a and 8a, you can LFB if you don't have a downshift to make and you are comfortable switching braking feet. I tend not to switch feet just incase I need to make an unexpected gear change. In a dogbox car, I'll LFB and clutchless shift. In a synchro car, I'll typically RFB all the time.


kawaigng said:
If I stay out longer on the enter of turn 6( later apex ), would that have a better control and angle for the exit?
That depends. A lot of cars run down the center to the inside of turn 6, so that's where a lot of the rubber is. Off line there will be dust and less grip. As long as you can be on the apex curbing of 6, you can be full throttle to the exit pretty much regardless of the line that took you there.


kawaigng said:
and what size of tires and rims you were racing with?
235/45/17 Toyo RA1s


Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
 
#20 ·
GarySheeha said:
Just to clarify, that video was created during the first practice of a USTCC race weekend. There is another video on the site that show a view out the windshield with an inset of the steering wheel during the race. You will notice my gear choices changed a bit because as we dialed the car in, I was able to carry more speed through the corners. Here is the video... http://www.teamsmr.com/movies/2003 Sears Point 2 Lap.wmv
You'll notice I make a mistake trailbraking for turn 1 in this video and get some oversteer. Not a huge deal, but it did cost me a couple of tenths of a second that lap.


Yes, this was the transition off the throttle and onto the brakes. The car was still heavily loaded on the right side and as I lifted off the throttle the rear stepped out a bit. Braking made it stay out, but I needed to shed the speed for turn 2.


I don't know why you would ever want to brake at the exit of a corner, especially turn 6 when you already don't have much front grip because the track is turning and dropping. As for turn 3a and 8a, you can LFB if you don't have a downshift to make and you are comfortable switching braking feet. I tend not to switch feet just incase I need to make an unexpected gear change. In a dogbox car, I'll LFB and clutchless shift. In a synchro car, I'll typically RFB all the time.



Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

actually I should say druing the turn 6 insteat of exit. Before you hit the apex (before the full throttle) looks like you were having a little bit or understeer, then you release the throttle for couple of times. and I was wanna to ask, is that poissible to use LFB instead of release throttle in that case

DId you use the 17x8 or 17x8.5?

On the heel and toe, should Iuse the double clutch instead of single.

And once again, thank you very much. I really appreciate that
 
#21 ·
kawaigng said:
actually I should say druing the turn 6 insteat of exit. Before you hit the apex (before the full throttle) looks like you were having a little bit or understeer, then you release the throttle for couple of times. and I was wanna to ask, is that poissible to use LFB instead of release throttle in that case
I have never found LFB to work in a situation like that. The reason is, the front tires are already at maximum grip at even throttle. Touching the brake would be asking the tires to do more work when it's already at maximum.

kawaigng said:
DId you use the 17x8 or 17x8.5?
17x8 according to the rules

kawaigng said:
On the heel and toe, should Iuse the double clutch instead of single.
That's up to you. I learned to race in dogbox equipped racecars. It's just the technique I use. The synchros make it so that you don't have to double clutch. I have a lot of empathy for the car, though, so I try to make it easy on the weaker parts, like the trans.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
 
#22 ·
GarySheeha said:
I have never found LFB to work in a situation like that. The reason is, the front tires are already at maximum grip at even throttle. Touching the brake would be asking the tires to do more work when it's already at maximum.


17x8 according to the rules


That's up to you. I learned to race in dogbox equipped racecars. It's just the technique I use. The synchros make it so that you don't have to double clutch. I have a lot of empathy for the car, though, so I try to make it easy on the weaker parts, like the trans.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com

I was thinking use the left foot brake to control the weight transfer, instead of using throttle. Just like depress the brake 3/4 down instead of release the throttle half inch out. Then I can have more throttle. But I may wrong.
 
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