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-   -   Stage 2....what else before protune? (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f70/stage-2-what-else-before-protune-25421/)

oldspower71 03-04-2009 06:24 PM

Stage 2....what else before protune?
 
Hey everyone. I will be installing my Cobb TBE and K&N panel w/GP Moto elbow within the next couple weeks. I will be running Cobbs OTS stage 2 93 octane map on the AP for now. My question is....before dumping the money on a protune, are there any other mods I can do before the tune to really get the best bang for my buck? I read that a protune can be limited by the stock fuel system. Is the limitation significant? Is a new fuel pump worth the extra $ right now? It is my understanding that the injectors on an 07 are adequate. My car will be stock other than the mods listed above. Also, what about a TMIC kit from ssautochrome. Ive read good things. Is it worth it on the stock turbo? I don't plan on upgrading it anytime soon. Just want a fast daily driver.
Please dont tell me to put on better tires or anything like that as I plan on doing that anywayz this summer. I just want input on the best things to do after stage 2 and before a protune. Thanks in advance.

baller_v24 03-05-2009 12:51 AM

i would probably get the grimspeed P&P exhaust manifolds and hi-flow crosspipe and their uppipe and a BCS.

as far as the fuel pump.....depends on the tuner and the tune you get. but i think it's mainly affected on sti's not on stock turbo on the wrx's

oldspower71 03-05-2009 01:28 AM

I was under the impression I didnt need to change out the up-pipe since it's catless. Is the ceramic coating offered by Grimmspeed what makes it better? Based on their graph it runs much cooler. The Grimspeed P&P exhaust manifolds and hi-flow crosspipe seem like a good deal. How tough is it to do yourself? I consider myself mechanically inclined but im more used to early 70's cars. Everything is so compact on the new models. You have to take 58 parts off a car to change the plugs.

baller_v24 03-05-2009 01:56 AM

the exhaust manifold are pretty easy. just make sure you use some wd-40 or like spray. well the uppipe actually helps for quicker spool and works great with everything else with a tune. im sure you could remove/install everything 4 hours or less.

dumdum 03-05-2009 06:54 AM

[url=http://www.cobbtuning.com/info/?ID=3474]CobbTuning.com - Dyno Tuning Checklist v1.00[/url]

[url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=674974]UCC Dyno Day with TXS @ Pruven (12/19) - NASIOC[/url]

newtothegame 03-05-2009 10:43 AM

Nice link DUmdum, I was going post that one. I honestly wouldnt mess with replacing a part (the uppipe) that doesnt need changed. Most earlier models, 02-05, replaced them for safety of the cat and EGT gauge, som claim to get better spool. If I were you I would look into the crossover and manifold, 3por BCS, and if a TMIC, something better then the SSautochrome one (i.e. APS) and then the protune.

pzr2874 03-05-2009 11:16 AM

Have heard of easy HP out of an aftermarket up pipe including PnP will net +/-10whp over stock regardless if it's catted. Worth the 200.00 in my opinion.

man show 03-05-2009 11:30 AM

Don't forget, the whole idea of replacing the up pipe (particularly on the 05 and earlier models... 06 and newer models come with catless up pipes from the factory) is to get rid of the catalytic converter, period. It's not good to have a catalytic converter in the pipe before the turbo (up pipe) because material inside that catalytic converter can become loose over time and get sucked into the turbo and destroy it (more common in higher-than-stock power levels). I haven't even heard of any aftermarket up pipes that come with catalytic converters, but I could be wrong. Some aftermarket [I]downpipes[/I] have optional catalytic converters - maybe that's what you're thinking of?

WReXd 03-05-2009 02:16 PM

[quote=man show;216631]I haven't even heard of any aftermarket up pipes that come with catalytic converters, but I could be wrong.[/quote]

I've seen one, forget what brand it was though.

oldspower71 03-05-2009 07:30 PM

First off....thanks very much for the replies and useful info. Called Grimmspeed 2day...wish they would offer a package deal with up-pipe/manifolds/crosspipe/turbo PnP but they said they could not under-price their vendors.....which is understandable. Every post on this site I have read says the up-pipe on an 07 is not worth replacing, being catless, but the guy I talked to said it is a VERY restrictive part of the system. He flat out told me to go with any aftermarket one I choose (not trying to be a salesman and sell his own product). He said the gains would be worth it with a protune. I have to say I am impressed with the customer service at Grimmspeed from my one-time experience. Now I just have to get an idea of how much $$ I want to spend. I am in the process of buying a duplex and that is where my priorites are for ther time being. But im thinking of just installing the TBE and intake parts (Cobb Stage 2), then checking with Grimmspeed's Chicagoland vendors to get a package deal on the parts/labor on the said parts and protune in a couple months. So im taking it that an aftermarket TMIC such as SSautochrome would not benefit me right now?? The guy over at Grimmspeed did say that a good 3-port BCS is a good idea, which I would try to factor in with the package deal. He said there is a guy by the shop who is running 22psi with a PnP TD04 turbo with 280 whp on the exact same setup (TBE, manifolds/crosspipe/up-pipe, and protune)that I am looking at with no IC upgrade?? This doesn't seem right because from my understanding, a larger IC is necessary when doing any turbo modification. What do you guys think?

baller_v24 03-05-2009 08:11 PM

that sounds a little extreme, im guessing it's on race gas. not really necessary to upgrade intercooler with the stock turbo, you could make more horsies with those grimmspeed parts.

Yea those guys over at grimmspeed are wonderful, you would be surprised what you hear from some tuners that actually tune cars and compare different products as oppose to "internet techs." I think alot of people say you should do this or not do that just because they heard it somewhere else. Although some people can be genius' on forums. take dumdum for example ;)

dumdum 03-06-2009 07:07 PM

[quote=baller_v24;216675]Although some people can be genius' on forums. take dumdum for example ;)[/quote]ROFL I wouldn't go that far:D. Baller is right.You have to make sure you get the full facts when taking this stuff in consideration.If the guy was running 100 octane or meth injection then sure a stock IC would be more than enough.I really doubt that guy is doing it on pump gas.The stock IC has a 1.5psi pressure drop at 14.7 psi.I'm quite sure at 22 psi it's closer to a 2.5- 3psi pressure drop.That means to see 22psi in the manifold the turbo needs to push 25psi through the intercooler.3 psi will be lost do to the intercoolers flow restriction.

oldspower71 03-07-2009 11:33 AM

Newtothegame what is wrong with the SSautochrome TMIC? Ive heard good things about it for the most part. I really don't want to spend $700 on a TMIC if I can get the same results with it. Seems like I read that the SSautochrome is the same as a Perrin or TXS or something like that. I contacted a grimmspeed vendor yesterday. The guy I spoke to recommended headers as opposed to the PnP manifolds. He said they typically see 15-17whp increase and only 5-7whp with PnP manifolds, that's quite a bit for $200 more. He said many, as we know, are concerned about the sound. Then he said "there is a reason why a subaru doesnt sound like a porsche" haha. If I do decide to go this route, do you guys recommend equal or unequal length headers and why? Also, he recommended a road tune for 250 and told me to sell the accessport (which would pay for any opensource tune I want) as most tuners do not tune with it. Im thinking of doing this because I never use all the little features the AP has. It sits in the box in my closet usually. The road tune is 100 cheaper that a dyno tune but I wont be able to see any #s like on the dyno. Im not sure if this is a great option. He did put together an $800 package for me with headers, GS BCS, up-pipe, PnP turbo service. Whatcha think? Thanks for all the replies.

baller_v24 03-07-2009 03:14 PM

that's not a bad deal at all. i didn't know GS sold headers that weren't the stocker manifolds as well.

road tune can actually be better because you get to factor in real world factors.
although you dont get a sheet that says a #, but again it doesn't mean anything to have a number, the real # is what you lay down on the track.

subarooster 03-07-2009 04:35 PM

well with equal length headers you will see more gains although you will lose the boxer rumble. unequal length your car will still have a beautiful rumble to it but you wont see as much gains as with equal length headers. in my opinion, it's a subaru and it's unique, don't ruin it over a few ponies ;)

especially since i doubt it's a noticable difference, maybe only on dyno sheets, otherwise it's not worth it especially as your daily driver??


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