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-   -   Doing rebuild, need aftermarket PCM suggestions (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f70/doing-rebuild-need-aftermarket-pcm-suggestions-25298/)

05WRXRally 02-16-2009 04:28 AM

Doing rebuild, need aftermarket PCM suggestions
 
Ok so im ready to do a rebuild, this is what i wanna do, and if you have brand suggestions lay em on me but here is an outline for now, im looking at going on a 2.5 block with forged internals and 2.0L heads (w/ hardened valves and seats) mild cams, and a 20G (or should i go bigger) with ofcourse all the supporting mods, but the one im unsure about is the PCM (most of you call it an ECU) i know i have to go with a whole new computer but who should i go with? i want to get the most power i can out of my setup but also need reliabilty, i dont want a computer thats gonna fry in a few years

dumdum 02-16-2009 09:36 AM

[quote=05WRXRally;215301] but the one im unsure about is the PCM (most of you call it an ECU)[B] i know i have to go with a whole new computer but who should i go with? [/B]i want to get the most power i can out of my setup but also need reliabilty, i dont want a computer thats gonna fry in a few years[/quote]Not sure where you got that information from but it completely false.4 of the most used methods of Engine Management reuses the stock ECU.

Cobb Accessport
Opensource tuning
Ecutek
Utec (piggy back)

[url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=795608]Engine Management FAQ: Read if you are thinking of buying one! - NASIOC[/url]

05WRXRally 02-16-2009 09:45 PM

I went to scoobytuner to research my options, and based on what they say, the ECU cannot compensate for custom cams and fuel mods, because technically stage 2 is turbo/intake/ehaust/engine managment, when i upgrade to bigger cams, bump up compression and upgrade fuel i need a custom ECU, and if they are just blowing smoke let me know, Im very familiar with how the ECU works and oppertates and what they said at scooby makes sense.

05WRXRally 02-16-2009 09:47 PM

Here is the link [url=http://www.scoobytuner.com/tuning/?tSfID1=4&tuningID=14]ScoobyTuner.com - Engine, Suspension, Brakes, ECU Tuning and more for your STi, WRX, Legacy, & Forrester[/url]

WReXd 02-16-2009 11:42 PM

Hmm... honestly I'm not very familiar with the limits of the stock ECU, but if you must get a standalone, the Hydra is probably the most popular, widely supported, and affordable solution. Plus there is the seamless compatibility with the Hydramist, which is really nice.

Kjott21 02-17-2009 03:59 AM

[quote=05WRXRally;215383]I went to scoobytuner to research my options, and based on what they say, the ECU cannot compensate for custom cams and fuel mods, because technically stage 2 is turbo/intake/ehaust/engine managment, when i upgrade to bigger cams, bump up compression and upgrade fuel i need a custom ECU, and if they are just blowing smoke let me know, Im very familiar with how the ECU works and oppertates and what they said at scooby makes sense.[/quote]

[quote=05WRXRally;215384]Here is the link [url=http://www.scoobytuner.com/tuning/?tSfID1=4&tuningID=14]ScoobyTuner.com - Engine, Suspension, Brakes, ECU Tuning and more for your STi, WRX, Legacy, & Forrester[/url][/quote]

That article is terrible. You don't [COLOR="Red"]HAVE[/COLOR] to buy a standalone ECU. The factory ECU can be set to do pretty much everything you want it to do. There are limits to the stock ECU, but I don't know if you are going to reach them. You can't just throw mods a the ECU and expect it to compensate for it. You have to change the parameters. This can be done via Open Source, Accessport, UTEC, EcuTek reflash. There are plenty of guys running bigger cams, built blocks and big turbos off the stock ECU.

If you want to run a standalone ECU then you need to do a lot of research and figure out which ones would be the best for you. There are a lot of options out there and some of them are more plug and play than others. Here are some of the more popular ones:
Hydra Nemesis: [url=http://www.elementtuning.com/technical/element_ems.htm]Element Engine Management System[/url]
AEM EMS: [url=http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=62]AEM - Plug & Play Engine Management Systems*[/url]
Autronics: [url=http://www.aussieimportsllc.com/Autronicindex.htm]Autronic Index[/url]
Link: [url=http://www.linkecu.com/]Link Engine Management Systems - plug-in & wire-in aftermarket ECU's[/url]
MoTec: [url=http://www.motec.com/aboutecu/ecuoverview/]Motec > About ECUs > Overview[/url]
Mega Squirt: [url=http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html]* *MegaSquirt - Electronic Fuel Injection Computer by Bowling & Grippo * *[/url]
Vipec: [url=http://www.vi-pec.com/]ViPEC Engine Management - Main Page[/url]

Another thing about this statement
[quote=05WRXRally;215383]bump up compression[/quote]
Turbo motors are made for lower compression. If you have increased compression you are more prone to detonation.

Hope this helps.

05WRXRally 02-17-2009 02:06 PM

Thanks Kjott, Im actually in a class right now learning how to reflash a stock ecu, just wish my subbie was here with me so i could have an expert with me, oh well. When i bump up compression im only gonna be running about 18-20 psi. But your post helped alot ill try and stick with the stock, and the worlds largest independent subbie shop is located about 20 min from my home town so when i get back home ill hit them up and see what they say.

Kjott21 02-17-2009 04:19 PM

[quote=05WRXRally;215483]Thanks Kjott, Im actually in a class right now learning how to reflash a stock ecu, just wish my subbie was here with me so i could have an expert with me, oh well. When i bump up compression im only gonna be running about 18-20 psi. But your post helped alot ill try and stick with the stock, and the worlds largest independent subbie shop is located about 20 min from my home town so when i get back home ill hit them up and see what they say.[/quote]

Ok. You are confusing terms. You are going to raise the boost not the compression. Don't get me wrong. A standalone is really nice if you don't need to pass emissions and can afford it. Most of them are between $1,000-2000.

dumdum 02-17-2009 04:30 PM

[quote=05WRXRally;215383]I went to scoobytuner to research my options, and based on what they say, the ECU cannot compensate for custom cams and fuel mods, because technically stage 2 is turbo/intake/ehaust/engine managment, when i upgrade to bigger cams, bump up compression and upgrade fuel i need a custom ECU, and if they are just blowing smoke let me know, [B]Im very familiar with how the ECU works and oppertates and what they said at scooby makes sense.[/B][/quote]Eeehh..regardless of if you know how the ECU works you don't understand how easy it is to modify:D. Your not looking in the right places at all bud.

[url=http://www.romraider.com/]RomRaider - Open Source ECU Tools | RomRaider / Rom Raider[/url]
[url=http://forums.openecu.org/]openecu.org • Index page[/url]
[url=http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.php/Knowledge/ECU]Scoobypedia | Trusted knowledge for everything Subaru | Knowledge / ECU[/url]
[url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=177]Open Source Reflashes - NASIOC[/url]
[url=http://tinywrex.x10hosting.com/online/index.php]chROM (Powered by CubeCart)[/url]
[url=http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=3264]CobbTuning.com - AccessPORT[/url]

Download the Romraider software and actually open up a stock ROM from both a 02-05 WRX and a 04-07 STI and tell me what you can't control.I don't think you quite understand the concept of "tuning".Is the ECU going to automaticlly adjust to larger injectors,turbos and cams?NO.....thats why you have to change the factory parameters.Welcome to the 21st century and the new flashable OBD II.People have been altering the factory programing on stock ECU's for decades now.Hondata, EPROM emulators,reflashes....

05WRXRally 02-17-2009 09:54 PM

Im doing both, just because you raise compression doesnt mean you cant raise boost, im going to have a bulletproof bottom end, so if i raise compression and boost it will still hold up perfectly, and with the raise in comp, it will make low end torque much higher. but im not going crazy with the boost, 20 psi at the most and thats when i want to have fun in the canyons, ill most likely only run 16-18 daily maybe less depending on what power gains i see

Ill check out, romraider, you guys seem to stand by it

05WRXRally 02-17-2009 10:13 PM

Well shit i just read this, maybe its my solution
[URL="http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f70/speed-density-coming-subaru-applications-25316/"]http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f70/speed-density-coming-subaru-applications-25316/[/URL]

newtothegame 02-17-2009 11:12 PM

Why are you throwing out numbers concerning boost (PSI)? If any number you should be trying for a certain HP level, maybe. Some cars make more power with less boost, and so on and so on. You can set the car for 20 PSI thinking you will get "X" amount of HP, but you could fall short. What exactly are you looking for with the car and set-up? Or what have you been told you will have/get with it?

05WRXRally 02-18-2009 02:04 AM

[quote=newtothegame;215543]Why are you throwing out numbers concerning boost (PSI)? If any number you should be trying for a certain HP level, maybe. Some cars make more power with less boost, and so on and so on. You can set the car for 20 PSI thinking you will get "X" amount of HP, but you could fall short. What exactly are you looking for with the car and set-up? Or what have you been told you will have/get with it?[/quote]

Im just making estemates for now, and im not looking for any certain number of hp, i just want to build an engine that has consideral power gains(compared to stock) but is extremely reliable and will hopefully last a LONG time. And i chose 20 max because its not to much more than stock but not real low and with the increase in comp but then again its just an estimate and im not looking for serious boost because like i said im looking for reliability i could honestly care less about getting the absolute most hp out of my setup because thats when you cut engine life and having problem after problem.

Kjott21 02-18-2009 03:58 AM

[quote=05WRXRally;215530]Im doing both, just because you raise compression doesnt mean you cant raise boost, im going to have a bulletproof bottom end, so if i raise compression and boost it will still hold up perfectly, and with the raise in comp, it will make low end torque much higher. but im not going crazy with the boost, 20 psi at the most and thats when i want to have fun in the canyons, ill most likely only run 16-18 daily maybe less depending on what power gains i see

Ill check out, romraider, you guys seem to stand by it[/quote]

There is no such thing as totally bulletproof. I know a guy that blew up a built motor. Please talk to someone that has built turbo motors before. You have to be more conservative with the timing when you have a higher comression ratio. There are a lot of good Subaru engine builders out there.

Are you building a 2.0L or a 2.5L? If you build a 2.5L you will have plenty of low end torque.

RomRaider is a great method of tuning the factory ECU, but it is very easy for someone to do something that they shouldn't when they don't know what they are doing.

[quote=05WRXRally;215555]Im just making estemates for now, and im not looking for any certain number of hp, i just want to build an engine that has consideral power gains(compared to stock) but is extremely reliable and will hopefully last a LONG time. And i chose 20 max because its not to much more than stock but not real low and with the increase in comp but then again its just an estimate and im not looking for serious boost because like i said im looking for reliability i could honestly care less about getting the absolute most hp out of my setup because thats when you cut engine life and having problem after problem.[/quote]

PSI doen't necessarily determine the life of the motor. 20 PSI out of a GT35r doesn't equal 20 PSI out of a TD04. There is a lot more flow from the larger turbo. Reliability is in the tune. If the tune is good you can run all kinds of boost all the time, but if the tune is bad you will still eff your motor up no matter how much boost you are running. If you want a reliable car leave it stock. Any modifications that you do will reduce the life of the engine.

05WRXRally 02-18-2009 01:20 PM

When i say bulletproof i dont mean totally indestructible, im exaderating a little bit but its still going to be strong. I come from building dragster V-8's and alot of the terminolody comes from being around all the baby boomers. Im thinking of going with a 2.5 block with 2.0 heads, so its not going to raise compression all that much but just gived it that little extra

And i really aprreciate all the advice guys, glad i chose to get some before i buy anything, if you guys have anything else keep it coming.


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