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-   -   Cobb numbers for Stage 1, 2007 WRX (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f70/cobb-numbers-stage-1-2007-wrx-24041/)

tnot 08-22-2008 02:19 PM

Cobb numbers for Stage 1, 2007 WRX
 
Taken from the "map downloads" area of Cobb's website, 2007 WRX:

Stage 1 93 oct Stage 1 for Stock Vehicles. 93 octane fuel.

[B]260HP[/B] (+13%)/ [B]300lb-ft[/B] (+28%) (at the flywheel).

Can anyone verify this? Seems to contradict the dynograph info they showon other parts of their site.

mosc 08-22-2008 10:14 PM

"at the flywheel"

dyno HP is at the wheels. The WRX has about 20-30% Drivetrain losses mattering on the dyno (more realistic end is 30%). This means that although they say 227hp from the factory, it only hits about 165whp. Both numbers are right, they just measure at different places

Cobb's map notes list the gains in flywheel horsepower and their dyno graphs are, of course, dyno graphs. This is the difference.

tnot 08-22-2008 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=mosc;203134]"at the flywheel"

dyno HP is at the wheels. The WRX has about 20-30% Drivetrain losses mattering on the dyno (more realistic end is 30%). This means that although they say 227hp from the factory, it only hits about 165whp. Both numbers are right, they just measure at different places

Cobb's map notes list the gains in flywheel horsepower and their dyno graphs are, of course, dyno graphs. This is the difference.[/QUOTE]

Yeah--I was more concerned with the veracity of the dynograph claim, considering that they state 7-ish hp in one area, and 28% gain in the other.

mosc 08-23-2008 12:51 AM

I don't know what you're asking

tnot 08-23-2008 11:40 AM

[QUOTE=tnot;203135]Yeah--I was more concerned with the veracity of the dynograph claim, considering that they state 7-ish hp in one area, and 28% gain in the other.[/QUOTE]

13% (the horsepower increase that Cobb quotes for Stage 1 on an '07 WRX) of 165 hp (the factory "at the wheels" estimate) is not 0.04 hp, the number Cobb lists on their dynograph for the power increase at the wheels. It should be more like 21.5 hp. 13% is 13%, irrespective of any parasitic drivetrain losses factored in. This applies for torque as well...instead of 7.1 lb-ft, it should be more like 46 lb-ft (28% increase, again according to their map notes).

Does that make sense? There is a glaring inconsistency in their data (and I'll share something with you...they admitted it yesterday when I spoke to their tech dept. The claim is that the map notes are more accurate than the "older data" reflected in the dynograph...but who do you believe?).

newtothegame 08-23-2008 05:09 PM

Also take into consideration no 2 cars react the same to the same mods even when sitting in the same garage. I know this is still a big open thing and I see where you are getting at with the Cobb notes. I didnt really get caught up in the numbers myself, just happy there was a noticable difference when I flashed stage 1 to my 07.

tnot 08-23-2008 06:20 PM

[QUOTE=newtothegame;203172]Also take into consideration no 2 cars react the same to the same mods even when sitting in the same garage. I know this is still a big open thing and I see where you are getting at with the Cobb notes. I didnt really get caught up in the numbers myself, just happy there was a noticable difference when I flashed stage 1 to my 07.[/QUOTE]

If it were about four hundred dollars less, it wouldn't bother me as much, either. $700 is a lot of change to toss around for 1 hp and 7 lb-ft of torque. I understand that it proportedly makes the engine a little more driveable, but I really think Cobb should step up and veryify their data a little more accurately and consistently, just from a sales perspective. But I hear ya.

mosc 08-23-2008 08:36 PM

you're misreading the information if you think stage 1 is only a 1hp and 7lb-ft gain.

tnot 08-23-2008 08:48 PM

[QUOTE=mosc;203187]you're misreading the information if you think stage 1 is only a 1hp and 7lb-ft gain.[/QUOTE]

Really? Then perhaps you can help explain the following graphic:

[url]http://www.cobbtuning.com/images_products/3161.jpg[/url]

mosc 08-24-2008 12:09 AM

it has lots of maps, it has realtime monitoring, it improves your fuel economy, it smoothes your power curve, and it gives more gains than just peak numbers.

but yes, your WHP won't go up drastically when you still have a crappy ass downpipe on the car.

tnot 08-24-2008 12:30 AM

[QUOTE=mosc;203192]it has lots of maps, it has realtime monitoring, it improves your fuel economy, it smoothes your power curve, and it gives more gains than just peak numbers.

but yes, your WHP won't go up drastically when you still have a crappy ass downpipe on the car.[/QUOTE]


MOSC, you're missing the point. I understand those variables--but the issue is the huge discrepancies between the power gains that Cobb claims in their dynograph and those in their map notes. It doesn't give me much confidence as a buyer when I can't get a reliable power output rating for a $700 "upgrade", particularly when I can reflash with open source/tatrix for about 15% of the cost.

metroscub 08-24-2008 05:39 AM

tnot, you are an absolute bafoon if you think that the awhp numbers associated with any car make a difference in what the actual car drives/ or FEELS like.

Secondly, you are clearly new to this, so i suggest reading, and actually listening. I personally do not give a shit what numbers you get with a "stage one tune", furthermore, it is not going to turn your car into any sort of monster, or make it run with an STi-like feel.

Also, go right ahead, and assume that you will be successful with open source tuning, I have been, so why not you, right? WRONG! open source is a very volatile thing in the wrong hands, and email tuning is usually hit or miss, and very time consuming, with a lot of guesswork.

Basically, you need to think about what you are doing, and what the hell you want to do. If you are staying at this so called "stage 1", save your money, the car runs decent stock, stage 2 needs a decent tune, but do not think for one minute that because it is expensive, that it works well, just do your homework.

tnot 08-24-2008 12:02 PM

[QUOTE=metroscub;203198]tnot, you are an absolute bafoon if you think that the awhp numbers associated with any car make a difference in what the actual car drives/ or FEELS like.

Secondly, you are clearly new to this, so i suggest reading, and actually listening. I personally do not give a shit what numbers you get with a "stage one tune", furthermore, it is not going to turn your car into any sort of monster, or make it run with an STi-like feel.

Also, go right ahead, and assume that you will be successful with open source tuning, I have been, so why not you, right? WRONG! open source is a very volatile thing in the wrong hands, and email tuning is usually hit or miss, and very time consuming, with a lot of guesswork.

Basically, you need to think about what you are doing, and what the hell you want to do. If you are staying at this so called "stage 1", save your money, the car runs decent stock, stage 2 needs a decent tune, but do not think for one minute that because it is expensive, that it works well, just do your homework.[/QUOTE]

Who are you? And thanks for the well-constructed argument...[I]Loooo-ziana [/I]owes a lot to the likes of you. If you cared enough to analyze the pre-established, documented data that's been set forth by the very people that make the device in issue, this whole conversation might make more sense to you--but I have a sneaking suspicion that you're probably a Cobb AP owner who rushed into the purchase before researching the variables and is now a little defensive. Next time, brush up on your facts...and don't bring a knife to a gun fight...

:beatentod

mosc 08-24-2008 04:01 PM

[QUOTE=tnot;203205]...and don't bring a knife to a gun fight...[/QUOTE]
believe me I won't make that mistake.

[color=red]Warnings to both of you guys. Please express yourself without "you are an ____ if you think" type idiocy.[/color]

tnot 08-24-2008 04:28 PM

[QUOTE=Please express yourself without "you are an ____ if you think" type idiocy.[/color][/QUOTE]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.


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