Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
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Well if i had a few extra thousand laying around id proly get somthing larger (20g) with some of that thousand paying for a good tune. But since the 16g is so comparable to the vf34 and 39 and cobb has ots maps for them, im looking for a used sti turbo for now and then ill upgrade down the road.
From what ive searched it seems the oem turbos are so much more reliable than FP. I would go with the fp16g but since im buying used and taking into consideration the vf34,39 are too similar to the 16g and evidently have proven to be the most reliable, it almost seems like a no brainer.
A 20G is a death sentences to an EJ205.
A few pointers:
- A 16G is better than a VF anything. They spool faster, are more efficient at higher boost levels, and make more power.
- Anyone who uses an OTS map on a turbo upgrade might as well just keep their money and not spend it at all. Why waste so much money on parts and not actually use them to their true potential?
- FP's 16G sucks.
What kind of mileage have you got on your motor?
Im referring to the small 16g which is as far as I can tell virtually the same as a vf. A big 16g Id assume would make more power at higher rpms but then i cant see it spooling faster than a vf "anything". Do you have experience/dyno sheet of a 16g vs vf39,34? Just curious where youre getting your info from.
Also, I dont see how a turbo upgrade with an ots map is a waste of money considering the map is free and at anytime when money permits, it can be re-tuned for its true potential.
90k on motor w good compression.
My info is coming from 11 years of common knowledge on Subarus. The IHI VF turbos are cheap, that's why people get them; not because they were ever the best performing because they aren't. Until the EVO3 16G was replaced by larger variants of the 16G, it was regarded as the best turbo for 2.0L WRXs. It spooled faster than and made slightly more power than the OEM STI turbos. IMHO you are on a wild goose chase since there is no distinguishable performance difference between the VF34 and a 39/43. Why would you look for a turbo that's getting harder and harder to find because nobody has bought them new for many years (meaning they are all higher mileage) when you can catch a USDM STI turbo for $250-350 just by spitting in the wind?
As for the OTS maps there are multiple reasons on why it's a bad idea, many are related to the fact that you're having to run a crap setup to use it:
- You're stuck with a slow (compared to others) spooling FP16G that makes a decent amount less power than competitors.
- You have to run JDM STI Pink injectors, which are harder to find than USDM STI/2.5L WRX injectors AND more expensive when they they perform nearly identical (Pinks are slightly better at peak flow)
- STI Pinks do not flow well enough for a good 16G, you need 650cc if you want enough headroom.
- Rather importantly, did you know the FP16G has been discontinued for years?
- This map leaves so much power on the table it's ridiculous. Cobb claimed 249 whp and 229 wtq , which is 10 or less whp than what can be achieved with a good custom stage 2 tune on the stock TD04 and less torque.
- Cobb's maps are nothing but base maps marketed as "free maps". They don't provide the greatest driveability or power as they were never intended to. Most people will tell you that base maps are only good for allowing you to drive to a tuner to get custom tuned.
- Cobb's OTS maps don't take well to all cars. There are too many variables in place for a one size fits all to really live up to the name. Different environment issues, different gas, different states of car health, etc. Some cars will blow up from using these maps because of it.
I'm actually on the hunt now for a vf39 which ive already located a few for a good price. If i came across a vf34 that was in good condition for cheap id go for it but seems unlikely. And why would I look for JDM pinks when I could just get higher flowing top feed injectors? As for the 16g, i'm not looking for any at the moment. As for the fp16g (discontinued or not) I will never look for. I was just using it as an example to get a vf over it.
Yes, Im aware of what an ots map is, but ive never heard of a car blowing up over it unless youre a person who didnt install correct supporting mods, used incorrect octane or your motor was already on its way out.
Ive been on cobbs stage 2 for a year and it couldnt run better. timing and fuel trim normal, a/f ratio good, temp normal,no boost creep. I havent been on this forum that long but between here and multiple threads ive read over the years, ive never heard one negative comment from anyone running an ots map.
I'm def getting a protune eventually but in the end, who wouldnt?
And just a quick last question.. Have you driven with both a vf39 and small 16g same car, same tune? Noticed a difference for yourself? Youre the only one ive heard from thus far stating that these two ARE NOT comparable. Thanks.
You can't run them on the same tune. The car has to be retuned for various reasons. They are comparable in that they are in the same category: small turbo upgrades. They make similar power but your average 16G flows a larger volume of air and is responsive. This is something we've known since Mitsubishi upgrades started becoming common 8 years ago.
As for the Cobb stage 2 maps tossing engines, it's happened to hundreds of cars. I've probably heard of a dozen or so myself that are directly attributed to the Cobb maps. Your circumstances are definitely valid, but in many cases they are not. Some cars just don't like the maps. There are just too many street variables and environmental conditions to make a very good one size fits all beyond owner incompetence: fuel quality, temperature, altitude, varying car health, etc. The last car I know was ~June-ish when a FB friend spun a bearing at about 45k miles when he took his car out to the track on a stage 2 map. The OTS maps shouldn't be driven hard on in the 1st place for the same reason you shouldn't hot rod with any base map. That's why datalogging is absolutely mandatory when using them. Most people just slap them on and go assuming they work fine. On some cars they will knock like crazy. Have you logged with a laptop? The AP unit itself is an incomplete device that cannot log all parameters. The AFR readings it provides are useless. Cobb maps are still quite rich.
The only reason you don't think the car could run better is because you haven't driven on a better map to have the comparison. A good custom tune will get you noticeable more power, a better power band (more power sooner and it will be more linear across the board), and your car will be more responsive to throttle inputs. People are blown away by the difference that can be made with changing nothing but the tune.
As for why use the Pinks, I was stating it using the example of your Cobb AP map, which required them.
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