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-   -   02 2.0 build (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f70/02-2-0-build-31765/)

tyler_s18 12-15-2011 12:51 AM

02 2.0 build
 
hey everyone! im new to the site but have been doing subarus for awhile (na :( ) but just traded my 04 wrx auto trans for a 02 wrx sedan 2.0 5 speed with turbo back exhaust, greddy pos bov, wheels and sti interior. the bov is causing a lot of boost spike and turbo flutter so im guessin this td04 wont last much longer so... good excuse for a build :D

my plans are accessport, vf39, bigger injectors, wally 255 pump, headers and uppipe then wipe out this clutch and get a stage 2!

i been doing research and will keep at it but just lookin for advice i guess watcha all think etc!

my accessport i picked up used and well this "brand new never been used" one is still married to the car it was never on... ahhhh... anyone got a cheaper way to divorce it without sending it to cobb and spendin the $300? if i gotta i gotta but was hpin to spend that on other go fast parts!

brfatal 12-15-2011 06:25 AM

Blow off valves do not cause boost spikes and the fluttering is likely compressor surge.

As for your Accessport, the only way is to send it to Cobb. I would have gone after the seller for giving your a "brand new" paper weight.

psinuse 12-15-2011 07:29 AM

Get a stock BPV and go Open source that will cure your AP blues...

bad grocerygetter 12-15-2011 07:41 AM

My only input would be to plan on some trans work. Gears or sti swap. Not a great idea to up the clutch on a stock 02 tranny. Weakest one. But good luck man that will likely be a fun car once its all tuned. Also may look at an sti top mount intercooler.

cwinterbower 12-15-2011 09:46 AM

Yeah, 99.9% chance the tune is what is causing your turbo issues, unless it's surging when you shift, then the bov needs some attention. If it's surging when you are just driving, it is way out of it's efficiency range and who know's what kind of psi you are pushing. I would be more concerned about my bottom end than the turbo if that's the case.

brfatal 12-15-2011 10:58 AM

[quote=cwinterbower;273029]Yeah, 99.9% chance the tune is what is causing your turbo issues, unless it's surging when you shift, then the bov needs some attention. If it's surging when you are just driving, it is way out of it's efficiency range and who know's what kind of psi you are pushing. I would be more concerned about my bottom end than the turbo if that's the case.[/quote]

Huh? What does compressor surge have to do with his tune or being within the turbo's efficiency range? The only part causing it is his BoV. It's not opening enough.

cwinterbower 12-15-2011 11:16 AM

Surge is a simple symptom of your turbo not having enough energy to spin the compressor wheel fast enough to counter the pressure, allowing backwards flow of whatever, "air in this case" and the compressor "surges" as it is fighting backflow. So off shifts, when no load is on the turbo, if it hits a wall (your bov doesn't open), you will hear surge. You will also hear surge if you are trying to push flow way outside of your turbo's efficiency range. Try to push 24lbs at say...3000 rpm's on a small hotside and see what happens. I could list articles all day long explaining this phenom, but I doubt it's necessary.

** Edited this in an attempt to have enough information so we don't have a flame war going on. Trying to help the guy, unfortunately he didn't say when it was surging. Guessing since he said "the bov" it's probably happening on shifts, but that has nothing to do with boost spike, so it's throwing me off.

turmic 12-15-2011 07:49 PM

^The thing is...that he hasn't tuned the car at all yet. The AP is a paper weight for right now. So, he must be on a stock map for right now.

cwinterbower 12-15-2011 08:03 PM

Probably, all I saw was "turbo flutter" and "boost spike", which in my mind if he's spiking.. the tune is not stock. I think maybe some terminology was mixed up. If all that was changed was the few bolt on's, then probably not boost spiking enough to cause surge, more likely the bov. Although I guess it's possible to really spike with a new tbe and no tune. It was early and I was more "skimming", boost spike and "turbo stutter', albeit surge, says way too much boost at low rpm's when your tired haha.

My lengthy post wasn't trying to convince I was correct, but it's highly possible and happens often. Just a suggestion.

turmic 12-15-2011 08:24 PM

It should be tuned, but doesn't mean that it is. That might be the issue right there. Lets see if the OP responds and knows if its tuned or not. I'm guessing its not and that is why he bought the the Cobb AP.

tyler_s18 12-16-2011 01:05 AM

ya no tune yet thats why i picked up the ap. i hooked up a cheapo boost guage just for fun and i run about 8 to 10 psi while gettin on it and as soon as the butterfly valve in the throttle body snaps shut the boost spikes to about 15psi and you hear the choo cho cho cho cho or what i calld flutter. im not sure if i got the terms right but they all make sense to me how i use them lol. what im pretty sure is going on is the bov isnt opening, opening late, or not opening enough causing back pressure on the cold side of the turbo and making it flutter and probably hurt itself. havent seen blue smoke yet but she is running rich i believe because of the smell after driving it hard for a little.

i been thinking a little about going a different route and maby you guys can shed some light on it. get this ap working then pick up my buddies td04 and rebuild it then put some bigger injectors and go e85. not as much power as the vf39 but probably closer to the limits of this valve train.

its got a stage 1 clutch i guess. deffintly harder then a stock clutch to push. but its giving me a issue. at about 2800 rpms in 5th gear most if i punch it she spools a little then it feels, sounds, and looks like the clutch slips (rpm wise) for about till about 4k then comes back down a little to 3800ish then pulls great to 6k. if its actualy the clutch i wouldnt think it would do it this consistant or grab again at higher boost. if something was busted up in the trans or diff i think i would hear a noise or something and probably not be this consistant. and since there are turbo/bov issues i was trying to think if it could be something with that but it really feels like a slip of sorts.

thanks for the replies. rants or anything are helpfull since im still learning a lot about all this. i grew up a muscle car guy till i rode in a few diesel trucks with serious boost then a few stis that were all that and a can of beans! now i am for sure a forced induction guy!!!

tyler_s18 12-16-2011 01:05 AM

ya no tune yet thats why i picked up the ap. i hooked up a cheapo boost guage just for fun and i run about 8 to 10 psi while gettin on it and as soon as the butterfly valve in the throttle body snaps shut the boost spikes to about 15psi and you hear the choo cho cho cho cho or what i calld flutter. im not sure if i got the terms right but they all make sense to me how i use them lol. what im pretty sure is going on is the bov isnt opening, opening late, or not opening enough causing back pressure on the cold side of the turbo and making it flutter and probably hurt itself. havent seen blue smoke yet but she is running rich i believe because of the smell after driving it hard for a little.

i been thinking a little about going a different route and maby you guys can shed some light on it. get this ap working then pick up my buddies td04 and rebuild it then put some bigger injectors and go e85. not as much power as the vf39 but probably closer to the limits of this valve train.

its got a stage 1 clutch i guess. deffintly harder then a stock clutch to push. but its giving me a issue. at about 2800 rpms in 5th gear most if i punch it she spools a little then it feels, sounds, and looks like the clutch slips (rpm wise) for about till about 4k then comes back down a little to 3800ish then pulls great to 6k. if its actualy the clutch i wouldnt think it would do it this consistant or grab again at higher boost. if something was busted up in the trans or diff i think i would hear a noise or something and probably not be this consistant. and since there are turbo/bov issues i was trying to think if it could be something with that but it really feels like a slip of sorts.

thanks for the replies. rants or anything are helpfull since im still learning a lot about all this. i grew up a muscle car guy till i rode in a few diesel trucks with serious boost then a few stis that were all that and a can of beans! now i am for sure a forced induction guy!!!

psinuse 12-16-2011 05:05 AM

[quote=tyler_s18;273072]ya no tune yet thats why i picked up the ap. i hooked up a cheapo boost guage just for fun and i run about 8 to 10 psi while gettin on it and as soon as the butterfly valve in the throttle body snaps shut the boost spikes to about 15psi and you hear the [COLOR="Lime"][SIZE="5"]choo cho cho cho cho [/SIZE][/COLOR]or what i calld flutter. im not sure if i got the terms right but they all make sense to me how i use them lol. what im pretty sure is going on is the bov isnt opening, opening late, or not opening enough causing back pressure on the cold side of the turbo and making it flutter and probably hurt itself. havent seen blue smoke yet but she is running rich i believe because of the smell after driving it hard for a little.

i been thinking a little about going a different route and maby you guys can shed some light on it. get this ap working then pick up my buddies td04 and rebuild it then put some bigger injectors and go e85. not as much power as the vf39 but probably closer to the limits of this valve train.

its got a stage 1 clutch i guess. deffintly harder then a stock clutch to push. but its giving me a issue. at about 2800 rpms in 5th gear most if i punch it she spools a little then it feels, sounds, and looks like the clutch slips (rpm wise) for about till about 4k then comes back down a little to 3800ish then pulls great to 6k. if its actualy the clutch i wouldnt think it would do it this consistant or grab again at higher boost. if something was busted up in the trans or diff i think i would hear a noise or something and probably not be this consistant. and since there are turbo/bov issues i was trying to think if it could be something with that but it really feels like a slip of sorts.

thanks for the replies. rants or anything are helpfull since im still learning a lot about all this. i grew up a muscle car guy till i rode in a few diesel trucks with serious boost then a few stis that were all that and a can of beans! now i am for sure a forced induction guy!!![/quote]

Your not getting flutter, sounds to me like it's just the BOV opening and releasing the pressure as it should.

pzr2874 12-16-2011 06:07 AM

Might have the wrong spring in the BOV...

Or dare I say, what shim is in there ?

cwinterbower 12-16-2011 08:45 AM

Yeah, bov not opening. I would assume it's the standard Greedy adjustable bov? Back the spring tension bolt out about 3-4 turns. Also, I am not sure why your boost gauge is shooting up during shifts, it should be going vacuum, which is what helps open your bov to begin with. What kind of boost gauge and how is it mounted? Also, some turbo's surge for years or even by design (race cars), and have very little if any compressor wheel damage. Just sorta depends on how bad it is and how long it's been doing it.


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