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pzr2874 05-01-2012 12:09 PM

Wideband or NOT-to Wideband
Hey guys and gals,

Was recently looking into gettin a few e-tunes (e85/93/RG) and figured I would give a few tuners on a chance (since I can get all 3 tunes for what I would pay for a COBB tune at the Plano facility).

I recently asked in the "How to choose your tuner" thread this question:

All I want to know is how many guys (when sending datalogs) send you the AFR reading from a wideband.

The response I received was this :

The factory OEM o2 is a wideband, so no additional sensor is needed/required.

Problem I have with this is that IIRC a specific range is all the OEM o2 sees.

Am I correct or am I looking too far into it?

Remember, this is direct injected

Any and all responses/questions are welcome.

brfatal 05-01-2012 12:59 PM

I can't speak for Mazdas, but with Subarus, we don't have narrow band O2 sensors. Abiet they aren't true wideband either.

For a more simplistic setup, a good tuner can work reasonable well off the stock sensor, but a wideband would definitely not hurt.

pzr2874 05-01-2012 01:26 PM

Can't be too far off from Subies. So they are WB, just not the whole range (True WB). Do you happen to remember the range on the Suby o2's?

brfatal 05-01-2012 02:03 PM

There was a thread on NASIOC that perfectly mapped out how accurate the stock sensor was compared to a wideband. I'll have to look it up when I get home from work.

RcrsWetDream 05-01-2012 02:42 PM

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If you're doing E-tunes or even local road tunes, get a wide band. Having knowledge of exactly what your afr is vs a best guess is worth every penny of the mere $200 you have to spend for the kit.

The only time I'd say you don't need one is when you're going to a shop and they'll have a wide band to use.

turmic 05-01-2012 02:59 PM

True Chris, my tuner sticks a Wideband on the exhaust tip of my car on the mustang dyno. Probably not the same as putting one in the DP bung. But, still better than just using the stock 02 sensors.

He uses the Dyno Dynamics probe inside the exhaust tip. For what its worth.

RcrsWetDream 05-01-2012 03:52 PM

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It's pretty much all the same. The only real rule on turbo'd cars is after the turbo. If you have cats, then preferably before the cats and after the turbo.

Other than that, if you're catless anywhere downstream of the turbo will see the same exhaust gas, as long as the tail pipe mounted sensor sticks it in far enough that it doesn't get traces of ambient air.

I don't even know how much a cat will affect the reading either, I just know innovate says to put it before cats.

turmic 05-01-2012 04:29 PM

I don't know, I googled it and its very debated on . Some claim its not a big thing on WOT pulls and the CAT will only skew it on light loads. Its over my head...and I read that some people say the exhaust probe is a bad idea and others say its fine as long as the probe is mounted inside far enough. Again...they're getting very technical on how the sensors read and its over my knowledge base.

brfatal 05-01-2012 11:08 PM

[url=]Stock Narrow Band O2 vs. LC-1 Wideband O2: Lots of Data - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums:[/url]

pzr2874 05-02-2012 05:51 AM

Crap, can't get on there from here. Will try again later at home. Thanks Justin.

I do know that DISI is a bit different from DI/PI cars as the AFR's are consitent in any gear/load.

Guess I need to be schooled on why they think a true WB is not needed for tuning.

Great replies so far

pzr2874 05-04-2012 06:04 PM

Not much data guys. I need a little more on what the stocker reads and how accurate. Thanks for the link Justin.

pzr2874 05-04-2012 06:18 PM

Ok, so the front o2 on my car is in fact a wideband, albeit not a LC-1 type... but a widebacnd nonetheless..... verified this with a couple tuners on

Dunno how they can be... but maybe the ECU controls it prior to det?

RcrsWetDream 05-05-2012 10:32 AM

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Honestly I don't know why Subaru's O2 system is the the way it is. Sounds like Mazda spent the extra $20 per car and did it right.

turmic 05-06-2012 08:23 PM

Probably because our car switches from O2 readings at CL to MAF readings at OL. No real need for the ECU at stock settings to require a Wideband.

pzr2874 05-07-2012 05:55 AM

Asked them if the stocker has been tested against a LC-1 and he said yes, tried, tested and no need to spend the extra $300

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