twins, intercooling, and turbo debating - Subaru WRX Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 11-28-2004, 04:11 AM Thread Starter
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twins, intercooling, and turbo debating

this goes along with the other thread but how hard is it to intercool twin turbos?

also i keep thinking twin turbo's will be harder to work with plus the fact of less efficency, so should i go single? calculations would be easier.but so far each turbo i know is at 2.14 pressure ratio and 26.89 lbs/min for 14lbs of boost at 5750 rpm and on a garret to4b V1/V2 trim turbo. it was within 70-72% turb efficency. only i want to run a total of 14lbs together so should i recalculate that for 7lbs?

when i get this figured out i can see which turbos i want really or which turbo but a single will end up bieng a cat vacuum with its size probably...

thanks for any help!
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post #2 of 15 Old 11-28-2004, 11:49 AM
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Just to let you know i know nothing about big v8's. But i know that an upgrade for a twin turbo supra is a single turbo. In general I think that a single turbo is better then a twin turbo set up in terms of reliability and simplicity. For your intercooling purposes one way to do it is to have 2 inlet pipes going to the intercooler and one exit going to the throttle body. For your use i think that this would work the best. Although the 3000gt has a twin turbo set up and they have twin side mount intercoolers then later on it y pipes into the throttle body this seems to work pretty well. my 2 cents

Good luck with this thing. Its gonna be crazey.
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post #3 of 15 Old 11-28-2004, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
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thanks, yeah i was thinking single is most efficent but then i think of pipe routing. on a smallblock chevy theres a ton of room around them in these A-bodied GM's. but when you go a pontiac engine, they lay lower to the side for some odd reason, plus the heads have extended ex. ports. i mean with the routing, twins are easier , just trying to figure out how to get the opposite bank route to the single is driving me nuts. for twins the garrett TO4b H3 trim looks to be good. i recalculated the boost to 7psi and got a Pressure ratio of 1.64 and 26.89 lb/min. theres the map for it. i think im actually understanding this.... somewhat

TO4B H3 Vtrim

so from the looks of it i would hit within the 74% efficency range. thats what i want right?

i did take into account a pressure drop of 1.4 for intercooling and .65 for aircleaner.

for single, a garrett super T70 or T61 is lookin to be the size:

T70

T61

Last edited by hipo_wrx; 11-28-2004 at 01:47 PM.
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post #4 of 15 Old 11-28-2004, 07:52 PM
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:eek:
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post #5 of 15 Old 11-29-2004, 06:00 AM Thread Starter
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LOL

never thought id see the day myself i knew about this stuff
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post #6 of 15 Old 11-29-2004, 10:05 AM
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the reason why a big nasty turbo for a supra is better than a twin turbo is because it used Sequential turbos, just like the Audi TT

there is one big turbo and one small one that feeds air through the big turbo to fight lag.

since lag is no big deal if you are just after high top-end acceleration (like a Supra and an Audi) or like say if you had a mamouth V8 so your low-end is going to be fine anyway.

It annoys me that they call it "Twin turbo" when they are are not identical turbos.

The 300z Twin turbo however is a parallel system, and I would assume this is what you are going to do... 2 turbos exactly the same one spun by the left side's exhaust and feeding the Right side's intake and the other spun by the right and feeding the left.

the only thing two in-line turbos does is make more work for the bigger one (spinning through thicker air) and basically just make it too complicated.

one of the huge advantages to the true twin setup is that only half of the exhaust has to go through each turbo, making it easier to cool them. Not to mention the fact that this will help your non-boost power since it is the equivalent of running "Dual Exhaust" which keeps temperature and restriction down to a minimum. If you are going to run single exhaust on a huge v8 it is really hard to find a place to put the stinking turbo... even if your headers are equal length, whatever side the piping is bent toward will usually run hotter. (hell even on my tiny 1776cc turbo Super Beetle this was the case)

some of the LS1 Camero guys are running a turbo that is mounted right behind the rear axle because it solves the huge V8 cooling issue without running dual exhaust.
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post #7 of 15 Old 11-29-2004, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
some of the LS1 Camero guys are running a turbo that is mounted right behind the rear axle because it solves the huge V8 cooling issue without running dual exhaust.
Ahh yes, I saw these at SEMA this year - the STS systems that place the turbo where the muffler usually goes. It seems so very unconventional, but I guess it works. You'd think that lag would become an issue, but the V8 guys don't really have to worry much about that.

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post #8 of 15 Old 11-29-2004, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, im afraid if i run a single ill need a large exhaust like 3.5 or 4 in. i seen a twin setup for a SBC and it was told that anything less than a 3 in. exhaust from each, they couldnt make thier garaunteed power.

i would never do the little into bigger crap with twins, i will have true Twins and they'll be feeding together into a 1000cfm T.B.

i did see that turbo behind the rear axle, thats pretty cool, but i dont know....
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post #9 of 15 Old 11-29-2004, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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sts turbo system

sts
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post #10 of 15 Old 11-30-2004, 12:38 AM
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If you've got some free time, check out this setup (18 page thread::single turbo waaay custom vette)

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346551

FP Green'd 04 STi

Trevor
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post #11 of 15 Old 11-30-2004, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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GEEZUS KRIST, nothing that big please, im stickin to twins....
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post #12 of 15 Old 12-01-2004, 12:45 PM
 
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I think this is a pretty big turbo... It is compared to a 16 G

http://lersoc.com/modules/pnphpbb2/f...s._big_16g.jpg
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post #13 of 15 Old 12-01-2004, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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it looks big on the compressor side but small for the turbine side,looks outta proportion. it is big though!
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-01-2004, 05:16 PM
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I saw this Turbo on a civic once.


I think he was running full 5' exhaust



sorry, just being stupid couldn't resist.

on a more serious note I have seen turbos on big rigs that were like the size of a basket ball, and the BOV could probably knock my car over if it were pointed in the right direction.
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post #15 of 15 Old 12-01-2004, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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those are stock on desiels and SRT-4's too
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