350Z v STi v GTO?? what do you think? - Page 3 - Subaru WRX Forum
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#31 Old 09-02-2006, 03:16 AM
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The Vette isn't dismissed by auto critics, Car and Driver named it one of thier "10 best". And in that reveiw you speak of, Car and Driver said "Finishing third in this test is like getting a date with Jessica Simpson rather than Claudia Schiffer or Monica Bellucci."

Personally... I'll take Jessica Z06 Simpson, and pocket the $100,000 I saved over buying the Ferrari. Hell, the Ferrari has a $22,000 brake package available... you're kidding right?

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#32 Old 09-02-2006, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedogomer
The Vette isn't dismissed by auto critics, Car and Driver named it one of thier "10 best". And in that reveiw you speak of, Car and Driver said "Finishing third in this test is like getting a date with Jessica Simpson rather than Claudia Schiffer or Monica Bellucci."

Personally... I'll take Jessica Z06 Simpson, and pocket the $100,000 I saved over buying the Ferrari. Hell, the Ferrari has a $22,000 brake package available... you're kidding right?
It absolutely is dismissed by the critics. A few years ago Car & Driver (they seem to make habit of this) they pitted the C5 Vette Vs. the M3 and the C5 out-performed the M3 in EVERY category. So, what happened? The M3 WON because it had rear seats and a plusher interior. Again, were they testing luxury cars or sports cars? This seems to be the norm for magazines like C&D and R&T.
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#33 Old 09-02-2006, 06:23 PM
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C&D named it one of the 10 greatest cars in the world, I still don't see the dismissal part of that.

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#34 Old 09-02-2006, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedogomer
C&D named it one of the 10 greatest cars in the world, I still don't see the dismissal part of that.
And Motor Trend named the Prius "Car of the Year" last year, I believe.

No dismissal in C&D naming the Vette one of the 10 greatest, but regardless, every time they put it against something, it loses. They just can't cut Chevy a break. Lord forbid that they say that a Chevrolet is a better performer than a Porsche or a Ferrari.

The numbers speak for themselves. The Vette was the clear winner. All I can suggest is that you grab a copy and read the article and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.
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#35 Old 09-23-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedogomer
NSX isn't produced anymore (although a new one is in the works).

The new Z06 is def a world class supercar, a bit more crude than it's Europeon rivals, but fast nonetheless.

I'm not a big GTO, Vauxhall/Holden Monaro, Chevy Lumia SS Coupe (whatever you want to call it) fan. The car never really shined in any particular category, and really was just kind of bland... prob why it never sold well and is discontinued for 07.

The 350Z is nice, but I like the G35 coupe better. Word has it the G35/350Z is being produced as a Nissan Skyline GTR for the 08 model year (I think 08) with a twin turbo V6.

GTO faster than an STI? Car and Driver gives the GTO a 0-6 of 4.8 and a 1/4 mile of 13.3 @ 107. The STI 0-60 in 4.9 and a 1/4 mile of 13.4 @ 102... dosen't seem like a huge difference to me.

The only thing the STI has over the GTO is handling and weight advantage? Because handling dosen't mean anything right? What about AWD, and a body that dosen't look like a Caviler with hood scoops. What about a 2007 model, does the GTO have that? Higher MPG, 4 doors, anything else?

GTO looks like Cavalier? You must not know what a Cavalier looks like and there is no resemblance. Stock for Stock the STI( I happen to like them ) will outhandle the GTO and has a definite weight advantage. From a dig STI gets the nod but the GTO closes quickly and blows by the STI. I am thinking about the STI as a daily driver because of the AWD. Little known fact, the GTO was not to be made after this year regardless of sales, which jave picked up. There is no way GM will have the GTO compete with Camaro when they will offer it in a V6. I don't mind anybody talking about a car but know a little about the car first. For the money I would take the GTO evrytime but I still like the STI.
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#36 Old 09-24-2006, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazenorange
GTO looks like Cavalier? You must not know what a Cavalier looks like and there is no resemblance. Stock for Stock the STI( I happen to like them ) will outhandle the GTO and has a definite weight advantage. From a dig STI gets the nod but the GTO closes quickly and blows by the STI. I am thinking about the STI as a daily driver because of the AWD. Little known fact, the GTO was not to be made after this year regardless of sales, which jave picked up. There is no way GM will have the GTO compete with Camaro when they will offer it in a V6. I don't mind anybody talking about a car but know a little about the car first. For the money I would take the GTO evrytime but I still like the STI.
The GTO sales have not picked up, they've declined year to year ever since the the GTO was introduced...

"GM sold 11,590 GTOs in 2005, down 14 percent from the year before. In January, year-over-year sales were down 33 percent" directly from http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyaut...o-for-gto.html.

"I don't mind anybody talking about a car but know a little about the car first"... How bout you look at the numbers then, do a little research beofre posting next time.

The GTO blows by the STI?... well not in the 1/4 mile 13.3 vs 13.4 (pretty close)... maybe from 100 mph on, beause you really need a car that will haul ass past 100mph, its very useful on the daily commute.


And yes, the Goat still looks like a Cavalier... I'm not the only one that thinks so.... http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ars-page2.html (end of paragraph 2)

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#37 Old 09-24-2006, 06:53 AM
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The goat has much much more potential than either the STI or the 350...
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#38 Old 09-24-2006, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedogomer
The GTO sales have not picked up, they've declined year to year ever since the the GTO was introduced...

"GM sold 11,590 GTOs in 2005, down 14 percent from the year before. In January, year-over-year sales were down 33 percent" directly from http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyaut...o-for-gto.html.

"I don't mind anybody talking about a car but know a little about the car first"... How bout you look at the numbers then, do a little research beofre posting next time.

The GTO blows by the STI?... well not in the 1/4 mile 13.3 vs 13.4 (pretty close)... maybe from 100 mph on, beause you really need a car that will haul ass past 100mph, its very useful on the daily commute.


And yes, the Goat still looks like a Cavalier... I'm not the only one that thinks so.... http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ars-page2.html (end of paragraph 2)


You get your stats from car and driver, that figures. One of the most biased mags out there. 2006 sales are actually up. In fact, they were good enough for GM to consider bringing them back in 2009. My personal opinion on that is, I don't think that to be a good idea since GM is bringing back the Camaro which on any day will out sell the GTO. As far as the Cavalier look, I've learne d that most that say that are usually the one s that have been on the losing end to one. As I've said before the STI will launch better but topend goes to the GTO. On twisties the STI will get it but with the right suspension mods the GTO can hang. While I like the STI, there are those that think its the ugliest car they have ever seen. Facts are this, no matter what car you have there is always one faster and the more money you have the faster you will go. Please don't take what car and driver says seriously, they also said the stock 05/06 Mustang GT beats the 05/06 GTO and I've yet to see that happen. Not saying it won't but with equal drivers it never will. I prefer reality over print.
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#39 Old 09-24-2006, 05:19 PM
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C&D didn't say the 05/06 Mustang would beat the GTO, they posted the performance figures and the GTO beat the Stang in most all categories, they just said they feel the Mustang is a better car than the GTO, speed isnt everything in a car.

C&D is a publication who reveiws vehicles professionally, I'll take their opinion over what your buddy saw happen at a stop light one day.

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#40 Old 09-24-2006, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedogomer
C&D didn't say the 05/06 Mustang would beat the GTO, they posted the performance figures and the GTO beat the Stang in most all categories, they just said they feel the Mustang is a better car than the GTO, speed isnt everything in a car.

C&D is a publication who reveiws vehicles professionally, I'll take their opinion over what your buddy saw happen at a stop light one day.

BIASED. Thats what car and driver is, not just my opinion. In fact I post on another forum( mainly Subies and other imports ) and they will tell you the same. Speed isn't everything and here( NC/SC ) alot of people take into consideration cost, how easy to seat four, looks and other qualities. I can tell you for the $$ the GTO is hands down the biggest bang for the buck( stock for stock ), the GTO beats out the GT because you can easily seat 4 and the interior is much better than the GT and looks go the GT( at least most peoples opinions ). You can mod the GT realtivley cheap which also gives nod the GT and there are more aftermarket parts for th GT. Mags can report whatever they want and we all know all print is just and an opinion of a few people( professional or not everyone has an opinion on which they like best ). The biggest thing I have against car and driver is that it wasn't meant to compete with Mustang but with the more expensive BMW's and such with similar hp. Everyone has their opinion and I respect everyones opinion.
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#41 Old 09-24-2006, 07:26 PM
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Wow. It sure is suprising to hear that people actually hold any merrit on what a magazine says about a car.

If I wanna know about a car, I go and drive it. There is no other way about it. If you want to compare two cars, go drive both of them. If you want to find out more about build quality, safety, reviews, etc etc, then look at the government's crash tests and online forums for what people say about the car. I can't even imagine basing my opinion of a car on what one individual who drove the car for a week has to say about it.

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#42 Old 09-24-2006, 07:27 PM
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There lies the problem with the GTO, it's main competition was out of it's league. GM couldn't expect pontiac to compete with BMW's and such, theres no name recognition with Pontiac, they've tried to turn their image around the past 2 years, but so far it's still just a Pontiac... When people think of Pontiac they think Aztek and Grand Am. The GTO isn't a bad car, but because it has a Pontiac badge and costs $35K+ it needed to be a great car, and a great car it wasn't.

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#43 Old 09-24-2006, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JiveMasterT
Wow. It sure is suprising to hear that people actually hold any merrit on what a magazine says about a car.

If I wanna know about a car, I go and drive it. There is no other way about it. If you want to compare two cars, go drive both of them. If you want to find out more about build quality, safety, reviews, etc etc, then look at the government's crash tests and online forums for what people say about the car. I can't even imagine basing my opinion of a car on what one individual who drove the car for a week has to say about it.
Sounds great, but if I had to drive every car I wanted to know something about, I'd be test driving a few cars every day, and Lambo dealers are very eager to hand over the keys to a new Gallardo to me so I can "get a feel for it" with no intention of ever buying it. While your statement theoretically works, its completely implausible. You can't drive every car out there, thats why I read about them instead. If you know anyone that has a GTO they want to loan me then sweet, but till then, I'll stick to printed word.

C&D are professionals who professionally reveiw cars, you work in IT right? So if I had a question about IT and asked you, and then said your opinion was garbage, what would that make me... an expert on IT?

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#44 Old 09-25-2006, 12:50 AM
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The GTO is niche whereas the Mustang is not.

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#45 Old 09-25-2006, 11:33 AM
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A lot of different discussions going on here about a lot of different cars, many of which are different than what the thread started with.

As for the original question - I think it all depends on what you're looking for in a car. If you like the sound of a V8 and you want some speed, the GTO is a good pick. If you want less speed but more of a modern look, the 350Z isn't a bad choice. If you want AWD and some really good stock handling and speed and some more practicality, it's hard to go against the STi. You'll typically see a LOT more STi's at autox events and track days. There's a reason for that.

As for the other cars that got brought into the mix (the previous generation Cobra, the new Mustang GT, the C5 and the C6) - everyone typically focuses on one or two aspects of a car to decide whether it's the best or not. The problem is not everyone looks at the same two aspects. Looks are so subjective that it's not even worth getting opinions on. Performance numbers say a lot but they don't tell the whole story. Quality is a big issue for some and it's difficult to measure. I like to focus on the "fun to drive factor". I've driven a lot of cars and though some were much faster than others, they weren't always the most fun to drive.

I think that's part of the reason you'll see magazines not give the Vette top honors when competing against cars like the 911, Ferrari and sometimes BMW. No doubt the Z06 has been able to clean up against any other car on the road, especially the ones just mentioned, but GM has yet to deliver a car that beats out a few less powerful German cars in the area of "fun to drive". I know, I know, some are going to disagree with me on this but most of those who do are very interested in speed and power. Don't get me wrong, I'd buy a Z06 in a heartbeat if I had the cash. But after driving the C5 Z06 and some of the cars that compete with the Z06 on the track I can finally understand what some of the mag editors are talking about - a little bit at least. It still pisses me off to see a comparison come down to plush interior or practicality of back seats, etc. If you like one car over another just say so, but don't tell me that the best performing car lost because it didn't have back seats... the C6 Z06 should beat out any street car it competes against simply due to the fact that is blows everything away on the track.

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