09 imprezas look horrible. - Page 2 - Subaru WRX Forum
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#16 Old 11-23-2009, 01:48 PM
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Yeah but I still don't think and am pretty positive you can't turn a WRX into an STi for 10 grand. Brake kit alone is a solid 3 or 4 of it, add in 5500 for the 6-spd. However, if you don't count the features that I really don't care about- interior, DCCD, wider body, etc.; the WRX is the better platform to me. I can make my WRX just as quick if not quicker and handle as good as a stock STi for a couple grand and that's a fact no matter how much the STi guys dispute it. I'm not looking for the other "luxuries" of the STi anyways, plus when I do my full build, you would have to upgrade just about as much to an STi as the WRX, so why not start with the lower priced vehicle. Turmic is right though, when he said people are only looking at the speed factor. There's a lot of other things to factor into the price of the STi then just 0-60 times. If Alcantara seats and DCCD matter to you, then go for it. It's just not for me.

-Chris
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#17 Old 11-23-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MWRX09 View Post
You need to move to a town that allows WRX's and quickly. Your on a WRX website what response did you think you were gonna get when you knocked a car that looks exactly the same minus lower body molding and a hood scoop? A standing ovation?

Now that was hilarious
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#18 Old 11-23-2009, 05:19 PM
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Any mods you do to the wrx can be done to the STI with higher overall outcome plus the tranny/drivetrain can handle. If you want STI numbers and that's all, then you'd be fine, but at stage 2 with EL headers I am about 320 AWHP, can't do that with the stock wrx tranny for toooooo long.

Brad

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#19 Old 11-23-2009, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratfink View Post
Any mods you do to the wrx can be done to the STI with higher overall outcome plus the tranny/drivetrain can handle. If you want STI numbers and that's all, then you'd be fine, but at stage 2 with EL headers I am about 320 AWHP, can't do that with the stock wrx tranny for toooooo long.
Just over 9,000 miles with my 07 at 326AWHP (and 319 ft/lbs). Sorry just throwing it out there. Its the driving habit.

Joshua
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#20 Old 11-23-2009, 08:42 PM
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If you live in winter weather. The DCCD is a luxuary you want as it's coupled with the helical front diff and LSD in the rear. The center is a adjustable diff.

Look at it like this.

STI
Front: Helical
Center: Electrical adjustable clutch diff
Rear: LSD or torsen (depending on the MY)

Wrx
Front: Open
Center: Open
Rear: LSD or torsen (depending on MY)

And you get a symetrical awd car that might only grip on the rear wheels when the going gets tough outside. Beyond a few other factors...its the reason my ass end came around on me and made me spin out my 06 tr wrx. In the winter when I had it. I can afford to pay for the luxuries because it makes the car safer for me and makes it more practical for me to drive it in adverse conditions.

Pay for what you can afford. This topic/comparison will never die. But, the ignorance of the total package the STI gives you is just flat out annoying. Its a better base package to start from if you plan on upgrading it seriously.

Edit: Its the TQ that destroys transmissions anyways, coupled with shock loading. It can be XXXHP and if the TQ is low or the driver doesn't shock load the heck out it (If the TQ is high). It will last.
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#21 Old 11-23-2009, 08:49 PM
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You are right, the 09 imprezas are ugly, but they have been ugly since 1993. Who cares?

For those of you who say the wrx can be made to be just as fast as the sti for little money, the same is true for the base imprezas. The price difference is what, like 6k?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 09azwrx View Post
the WRX is way higher on the food chain then a low end impreza.
^this^ is not true. If you know what you're doing, you can make an rs way faster than a wrx, even an sti, with that kind of money. All you need is an ej205, a decently sized turbo, supporting mods, megan coilovers, better tires, and BAM, $4k later you are faster than a stock sti, AND you still have $2k left to spend. Being as fast as a stock sti is NOT an accomplishment. I don't see how anyone can think so. If you REALLY want to be fast, you WILL consider stronger drivetrain components, upgraded diffs, and bigger brakes eventually, and ALL of that comes on the sti STOCK. You also have peace of mind knowing that no one else has touched your parts so you know what condition they are in, and you know they were installed properly. You can't put a price on that (well, you can... but you know what I mean). There are also a bunch of little things that are easy to take for granted. Have you ever looked at the wiring schematics for DCCD or cared to find out how it all works? Have you seen the fancy baffle in the fuel tank, or the rally-esque shielding around it? Did you know that the new sti has DUAL AVCS? I admit I am probably not good enough of a driver to notice the difference between bigger brakes, better diffs, etc., but I'm not going to infer that because I don't notice a difference, they don't make a difference. People that actually race/compete will appreciate the "luxuries" of the sti, and those people are who the car was intended for.

Btw the best impreza "platform" is the GC, hands down, and that is neither a wrx or an sti. With only having spent $1.5k on the chassis, you can spend over $20k on mods. Never mind an sti, you can make a GC faster than a porsche with that much money. Who needs all those "luxuries" anyway, right?
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#22 Old 11-23-2009, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame View Post
Just over 9,000 miles with my 07 at 326AWHP (and 319 ft/lbs). Sorry just throwing it out there. Its the driving habit.
I totally agree with you. I would likely kill the tranny though. LOL

BTW I am surprised to see your torque numbers lower then HP, any particular reason? With my tunes they always run at least 50lbs more then hp with some being as much as 80lbs difference.

Brad

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#23 Old 11-24-2009, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratfink View Post
I totally agree with you. I would likely kill the tranny though. LOL

BTW I am surprised to see your torque numbers lower then HP, any particular reason? With my tunes they always run at least 50lbs more then hp with some being as much as 80lbs difference.
It has taken restraint on several ocassions. I really want to see what its made of, but knowing the transmission could puke on me keepe me in check.

As far as the HP/TQ goes, thats just how it turned out unfortunately. I was a little disappointed also. But that just gives me a goal to work on later down the road, lol. Tim said the Grimmspeed stuff would help out alot when Im ready for that (the PnP crossover pipe, manifold, and even throttle body).

Joshua
"2007 WRX- PPG'd, 20G- Tim Bailey tuned
Stage 2 2005 WRX
Cobbtuning.com"
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#24 Old 11-24-2009, 01:42 PM
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I'd expect the guru sponsored drivers like Ken Block and Travis Pastrana would be in base model WRX's if they were more capable than the STI's. I wish I had the extra $10K for the STI simply for the tranny, but when it comes close to budget and I think about how much more it is to fix an upgraded and more complicated transmission like the STI's in comparison, I had to pass. With the turbo back, drop in air filter, and Cobb AP for 93 octane stage 2 I had significant gains and am quite happy with the performance.

for the record though, the STI has not only different tranny, but also the suspension, larger IC, cooler body kit (IMO), larger wheels/tires, Brembo brakes, this that and the other... But no sunroof! hahaha =D I win :P
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#25 Old 11-24-2009, 02:16 PM
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LOL I wouldn't mind a sun roof.

Brad

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#26 Old 11-24-2009, 03:14 PM
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Garage
If i had the money for an STI....there would be one in my driveway. But i am super happy with my wrx.

so stock its not even funny...just kinda sad :(
-Randy
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#27 Old 11-24-2009, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratfink View Post
I totally agree with you. I would likely kill the tranny though. LOL

BTW I am surprised to see your torque numbers lower then HP, any particular reason? With my tunes they always run at least 50lbs more then hp with some being as much as 80lbs difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtothegame View Post
It has taken restraint on several ocassions. I really want to see what its made of, but knowing the transmission could puke on me keepe me in check.

As far as the HP/TQ goes, thats just how it turned out unfortunately. I was a little disappointed also. But that just gives me a goal to work on later down the road, lol. Tim said the Grimmspeed stuff would help out alot when Im ready for that (the PnP crossover pipe, manifold, and even throttle body).
If you look at a the expected map notes for a stage 3 wrx w/ a VF 39. It does the same thing. Higher HP than TQ. I think it's the higher compression and the wrx cams that do that. That's only thing that I can think of.

cobb . wrx accessport . map listing
VF39 93oct VF39 turbo, STI TMIC & Turboback exhaust using 93 octane. 362HP (+57%)/ 334lb-ft (+42%) Numbers At The Crank, Not Wheel

As far as the STI comments. I'm letting it die at this point. Get what you can afford.

Kirt
378awhp/373wtq Custom Dom 3 & CBRD tuned 2006 STI.
"When in doubt...flat out" - Colin McRae
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#28 Old 11-25-2009, 02:38 PM
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Come on guys....both cars are great and I wudn't mind an STI in the garage.But budget does come into play,and afterall sometimes we get nuts with the numbers game.Life's too short...ENJOY....by the way,in the garage is an 09 WRX base with catback and shift kit...love it

Last edited by WRXRUNNER; 11-25-2009 at 02:41 PM. Reason: didnt finish
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#29 Old 11-26-2009, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WReXd View Post
You are right, the 09 imprezas are ugly, but they have been ugly since 1993. Who cares?

For those of you who say the wrx can be made to be just as fast as the sti for little money, the same is true for the base imprezas. The price difference is what, like 6k?

^this^ is not true. If you know what you're doing, you can make an rs way faster than a wrx, even an sti, with that kind of money. All you need is an ej205, a decently sized turbo, supporting mods, megan coilovers, better tires, and BAM, $4k later you are faster than a stock sti, AND you still have $2k left to spend. Being as fast as a stock sti is NOT an accomplishment. I don't see how anyone can think so. If you REALLY want to be fast, you WILL consider stronger drivetrain components, upgraded diffs, and bigger brakes eventually, and ALL of that comes on the sti STOCK. You also have peace of mind knowing that no one else has touched your parts so you know what condition they are in, and you know they were installed properly. You can't put a price on that (well, you can... but you know what I mean). There are also a bunch of little things that are easy to take for granted. Have you ever looked at the wiring schematics for DCCD or cared to find out how it all works? Have you seen the fancy baffle in the fuel tank, or the rally-esque shielding around it? Did you know that the new sti has DUAL AVCS? I admit I am probably not good enough of a driver to notice the difference between bigger brakes, better diffs, etc., but I'm not going to infer that because I don't notice a difference, they don't make a difference. People that actually race/compete will appreciate the "luxuries" of the sti, and those people are who the car was intended for.

Btw the best impreza "platform" is the GC, hands down, and that is neither a wrx or an sti. With only having spent $1.5k on the chassis, you can spend over $20k on mods. Never mind an sti, you can make a GC faster than a porsche with that much money. Who needs all those "luxuries" anyway, right?
Although i agree with some of this stuff, there are a lot of people who don't want to buy a car and put thousands of dollars of mods into it just to never see that money again when it comes to selling it. This is why the wrx or sti is a wiser choice depending on what the buyer is looking for. Yes an rs can be made faster than a Porsche(So can a civic) but in the end who has the better resale value? By the way, there are some slow Porsche's out there And can you explain why the GC is the best "Impreza" platform compared to the usdm wrx/sti?
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#30 Old 11-26-2009, 04:55 AM
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The claim I was responding to was
"WRX + leftover cash > STI"
The argument to support this claim was, "I can spend the money I saved from buying the cheaper car to mod the WRX, and eventually it will be faster than an STI." My post was meant to show that this argument is idealistic and naive. The proponents of this view are overlooking a LOT of small things (i.e. everything I brought up, DCCD, dual AVCS, etc). Yes, the wrx is the right choice for some, but if you want to talk strictly about speed, give it up. Like I said, if speed is all you care about, the GC is the best Impreza platform, hands down. It is, by far, the cheapest and lightest. Sure it's not as stiff/rigid, but if you're serious about racing there will be plenty of bracing and a roll cage in the car anyway. Any highly modded Impreza will have practically every removable part replaced, so in the end, all you really keep "stock" is the chassis. What's smarter? Spending $25k or $1k on a chassis? Add into the mix that the $1k chassis is 300 lbs lighter, and there's no contest.

I've spent a lot of money on my GC so far, but still not nearly as much as the cost of a used wrx. But when I'm done, it will be MUCH faster than even a mildly modified sti. Do I recommend this path to the general public? HECK NO. The amount of time and effort involved is ridiculous. Depending on your goals, lifestyle, budget, experience, etc. it may be in your best interest to spend $35k on a car, $25k, or $1k. It is naive to think "my wrx is just as _______ (fill in the blank) as an sti because ______." To reduce the difference between the sti and wrx to "luxuries" is a gross oversimplification of the truth of the matter. That extra $____ you pay isn't for nothing. THAT is what I was arguing for. I have no idea what your point was bringing up resale value and civics. I think you need to reread my previous post.

I guess to sum it up, some people say:
WRX + leftover cash ($10k?) > STI because the WRX is faster
but if we follow the logical consequences of this argument, it is also true that
GC + leftover cash ($22k?) > WRX (as well as STIs and Porsches) because the GC is faster
and you are supposed to be like, "oh duh, there is clearly something wrong with the second argument, and since it is structurally identical to the first, we shouldn't buy that one either."
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