Why upgrade your brakes? - Page 4 - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #46 of 242 Old 04-16-2006, 07:58 AM
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dont think stock brakes can lock up tyres ... but larger brakes do work better
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post #47 of 242 Old 04-16-2006, 02:55 PM
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Ok, well here is my proof.. I was traveling to word Friday morning and I almost lost my car.. I crested a hill traveling too fast for conditions as there was a very dense fog, but I was stupidly rushing to get to work... Well as I crested the hill the siloete of a tandem dump truck appeared very close in front of me.. Well, he was traveling about 1/3 my speed judging by the time frame that I closed on him.. I was UNABLE to stop or even slow to his speed.. My Upgraded Rubber (AA temp, AA Traction 205 45 16) NEVER locked up on me and I was forced to pray to GOD the no one was coming as I had to shoot around him or else end up underneath him thus totaling my car and possibly hurting myself and others... I was very lucky as NO one was hurt.. I am not saying that I would have been able to slow or stop in time with an upgraded system, I am saying that my current stock break setup is out performed by my current rubber.. Thus I say that it's not one component but rather an entire system..

As for the expansion of the lines on race conditions, I don't know about everyone else, but I experience fad and soft breaks when I go out for a "Sunday" drive on the back roads in my area.. All the hills and turns create a similar situation that one would encounter on the track so upgraded components are sometimes useful on the street..

02 WRX.. "It's fun when it runs.. Problem is that it hardly ever does..."
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post #48 of 242 Old 04-16-2006, 07:15 PM
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Hey guy's,
I just want to chime in here for a minute. Please don't let this thread get out of hand, you have been good so far towards each other and I would like to keep it this way.
Just an thought but you guys might want to agree to disagree on this topic.
Thanks, Ian

My turbo's fixed and a lot better =)
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post #49 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 03:24 AM
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ok ok i've asked a someone who seemed to know. imagine if your tyres will lock at 1000 friction brownie points (friction between road and tyre). imagine your brake pads have to create 5000 brake points to make 1000 road friction points yah.

if you have smaller brakes:
you push the pedal halfway brakes make a pathetic 1000 brake points and translates to 400 road points. then you push the brake pedal 3/4 - pathetic 2000 brake points and 550 road friction, you can feel there's no braking so you push the pedal even harder - the hydraulics however exponentially increases the brake points to 5000 and your tyres lock up.

if you have larger brakes say 30% more "power":
you push the pedal halfway and brake makes 3500 brake points and translates to say 750 road friction. no lock. push the brake to 3/4 (which used to do nothing) and make 4500 brake points and 910 road friction and lo and behold much better decelleration but still no lock up, then you press it even more and get 999 brake points and 4900 road friction - awesome braking and still no overcooking.

then you install better tyres ... and blow everyone away!
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post #50 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 03:26 AM
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better control is what i was trying to get at. in fact impossible control w the smaller brakes (impossible to brake at the limit w/o doing too little or locking it up w smaller brakes)
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post #51 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 03:27 AM
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but about the abs thing ... your tyre should not lock up anyway! or does it ...
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post #52 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 12:45 PM
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I think you misunderstood what i was trying to get at with the lockup. Your right jwtarbaj, no ones tires should be locking up because everyone here should have ABS. What im getting at is if there was no ABS, your stock brakes could be locking up your tires instantly. But being that we all do have ABS, ill say your stock brakes can cause your ABS to kick in. and it only kicks in when it detects lockup.

Shoaf, the LAST thing you want in an emergency situation like that is lockup. If you had locked up, you probably would have slid into the back of that truck. You made a split second decision and didn't hesitate. I commend you for that. Nice work.

I have no idea what your talking about joker97. Sorry.

so. ill rephrase my question. If you where to disable your ABS and drive to a speed in excess of say, 40MPH, and where to push the brake peddle to the floor with stock brake components, the tires would lockup. That being said, why are larger components needed to slow the tires down any faster, if they can be stopped instantly by the factory components?
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post #53 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 03:28 PM
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with factory you cant achieve braking at the limit. as explained. i think you need to know a bit of maths and physics to understand this mate.
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post #54 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 03:29 PM
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its about friction at the brake discs which is controlled exponentially (if you know what this means) by the hydraulics from your foot pedal. the friction between the tyres and the road has got nothing to do with achieving braking at the limit. kind of ...
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post #55 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 03:30 PM
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thats why lilshoaf did say you gotta upgrade the whole system not just the brakes itself but just the brakes itself will do some good. as someone who knows maths and physics to explain friction and exponential-ism to you
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post #56 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker97
the friction between the tyres and the road has got nothing to do with achieving braking at the limit
hold the phone a sec. are you trying to say the tires have nothing to do with slowing down the car?
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post #57 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 05:28 PM
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I have an honest question here guys.. To the group... How does your ABS system act when it's engaged.. In "ALL" of my previous cars and my parentals cars the pedal pulses, so you can "Feel" it working and you can hear a horrid noise at the same time.. This is my first Subaru and so I don't know if they did it differently or not.. My car is Used so I know nothing of it's previous owner and condition so I really don't know if mine is working.. I have yet to notice my ABS kicking in.. Not last Friday, not in the winter, never.. I'm kinda worried honestly about it..

02 WRX.. "It's fun when it runs.. Problem is that it hardly ever does..."
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post #58 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 05:38 PM
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go find an empty strech of road and give er a whirl. the pulsing is the ABS system squeezing and loosening its grip on the rotor. when the ABS detects lockup it releases brake pressure to keep the wheels rolling. i personally am not a huge fan of ABS. granted its a crap load better then locking up and sliding into what in front of you, threshold braking is way WAY better then the braking ABS could provide.

my 03 feels like most other ABS systems.
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post #59 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 05:53 PM
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Right right, I know the In's and outs of an ABS setup and how it functions, just didn't know if Subaru installed an electronic assist that removed the pulse in the peddle..

I really feel mine is out since it didn't engage Friday nor, last winter.. Granted I love my winter /ice rubber and I know they play Hugh part with the AWD.. But thinking back when I purchased the car the all seasons on here were Bald and I slid everywhere and remember no ABS engagement. How harsh is the peddle lash??

02 WRX.. "It's fun when it runs.. Problem is that it hardly ever does..."
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post #60 of 242 Old 04-17-2006, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiL Shoaf
Right right, I know the In's and outs of an ABS setup and how it functions, just didn't know if Subaru installed an electronic assist that removed the pulse in the peddle..

I really feel mine is out since it didn't engage Friday nor, last winter.. Granted I love my winter /ice rubber and I know they play Hugh part with the AWD.. But thinking back when I purchased the car the all seasons on here were Bald and I slid everywhere and remember no ABS engagement. How harsh is the peddle lash??
no there isent anything fancy. at least not to my knoledge.

do you meen sliding laterally? like while turning? a lateral slide feels simmaler to sliding with lockup becuase its essentially the same thing, a loss of traction. whats peddle lash? do you meen how hard does the peddle push back when the abs kicks in? you will absolutly feel it. it pushes back how ever hard it needs to release brake pressure. its almost feels like marbles rolling under your foot. sorta...
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