Understeer Compensation... - Page 2 - Subaru WRX Forum
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#16 Old 12-31-2009, 07:24 PM
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I haven't been able to find any feedback from anyone with the Whiteline bar and mating it with Rallitek endlinks... that's what I'm thinking but I might just go with the whiteline non adjustable endlinks instead and be assured they'll mate up well. After looking at the end links more they are definitely nicer than I had originally given them credit so with the great price on them I am more than willing to check 'em out! Just don't know about the match up. I keep getting back and forth answers on the adjustable end links too, but I am pretty positive that I should keep it simple and just do the solid links... but I just don't know! Will I be able to properly adjust them if I got them? Not likely. Don't get them.. But they look way better! But you'll never see them... And they're more expensive... Ok, I guess I won't get them, lol. I'm sorry you had to see the guy on my left and right shoulders go at it like that, LoL
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#17 Old 12-31-2009, 08:44 PM
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Lol, I just shot an email to my guys in WA, see if I can get an answer within a day or so from them, see what they say. I know the Rallitek links worked with the Cobb adjustable sways (he used the middle setting for street, the "stiffest" setting for auto-x). I asked them if they would work without problems for the Whiteline. I have never seen Whiteline bars so I cant help, sorry. I have seen Perrin, Cobb, Cusco, and Hotchkis though, lol.

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#18 Old 01-03-2010, 04:17 PM
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I ended up getting a price for the Whiteline rear sway and adj. end links shipped for less than the regular price of the sway and solid links (well not the ralliteks) without shipping. Hard times suck, but we're all in to help each other out if you look at it. I've gone through a tone of "how to's" and it's relatively a simple approach to get the bar set up without preloading and at level no matter the adjustment you use on the sway bar. This is what got me since I'm sort of a perfectionist and if it's not a perfect 90° you're not getting ALL of the benefits. I don't see the point in getting SOME of the expensive @$$ part I just bought and installed ya know. Here's an interesting link I found while going through the internet link madness:

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#19 Old 01-04-2010, 10:07 PM
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I love the video. It's common sense to most people. But, they break it down pretty good into lame mans terms.

Kirt
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#20 Old 01-09-2010, 09:57 AM
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Smokin' Joe -
As soon as you get done w/ your sways & end links and get used to the feel of your improved handling, you may want to upgrade your chassis bushings to remedy the inherent slop in the stock rubber units.
I'm running a 20mm WL rear bar w/ RT end links along with WL chassis & drivetrain bushings - KDT902 & KDT903. I also replaced the stock tranny mount w/ a Group N. The chassis feels so much tighter & shifting is so much more direct with just a hint more NVH throughout. For improved shifting, I can also recommend RT's shifter bushing and the STI Group N shifter bushing to tighten it up quite a bit more.
IMO, a car with this performance potential should have come with these bits on it from the factory.
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#21 Old 01-10-2010, 08:57 PM
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Thanks for the good input Kingsalami (lol at the name :P). I have a Perrin STS adapter with the bushings and that was quite a nice improvement. The Group N tranny mount is on the list as well, and is quite cheap to boot when compared to other mods. How much of a pain were the other sub chassis bushings to install? Also, how do you like the rear sway and what setting are you using? I was looking at some of the chassis braces (lower front more than any others) for reduced body roll and such. It's a work in progress of course, but I don't want the thing so tight that getting into the dirt bends shizz, ya know, lol.
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#22 Old 01-27-2010, 12:31 PM
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I just installed Whiteline sways: adjustable 24mm front set to softest setting(most rearward hole) and 22mm adjustable rear set to the middle hole that I picked up from Geoff at cygnusperformance.com. Geoff was really easy to deal with, is an all around good guy and I had them in two days($183 shipped). The rear bar came with Whiteline's brace supports that were the most difficult part of the entire install- need a 17mm socket and a 4 foot cheater bar :0). I read up a lot about the various end links available and settled on AVO adjustable rear endlinks($115) and avo adjustable front links($79). The rear links use polyurethane bushings and a beefier top mount than stock and the fronts are much more substantial versions of the stock setup with adjustability. They transformed the car...much more neutral(I've owned three 911's, the last with JIC coilovers and tracked) and was really looking for a more balanced corner entry. The design of the end links avoid the problems many have described with noise developing over time with Perrin links, offer the added benefit of length adjustability when I decide to move on with coilovers and don't have the problem I've seen in some setups of the end links being at an extreme angle ...check them out at avoturboworld.com. I also installed a Tanabe strut brace and noticed a very small improvement only in very spirited driving. I think the proximity of the strut towers to the firewall structure is inherently rigid so the strut brace is probably more bling than bang for the buck.
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#23 Old 01-27-2010, 03:46 PM
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DDZ, you got both of the Whiteline bars for $183 total including shipping? That's an awesome deal! I still haven't bought a front sway since I don't track much and since the front sway is 19 or 20mm (I foget off the top of my head), I went with the 20mm rear for the more neutral approach that you speak of. I might just get front end links and not a bar since I really like the difference in cornering I already have. Even on the soft setting of the 20mm rear bar was good, but I moved it to the medium setting to play with it and I still have trouble pushing oversteer. I have deemed it good for now. I have strongly been considering an anti-lift kit though, but I don't want too harsh of a ride for daily drivin' ya know...

Joe

Only use roads to get to the dirt; Then keep it sideways! >;D
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#24 Old 01-27-2010, 06:09 PM
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My personal experience with suspension tuning on my Subaru (GD chassis):

get bigger sways (I got Cuscos 22mm and I love them) better endlinks (I got Perrin, work great, sound horrible), Get better tires on wider rims (I got Potenza RE01-R's on SSR C-RS, could have gotten wider tires but these work just fine for EDU and have lasted for far more than what I expected) and get A GOOD SPRING/SHOCK setup. Can't stress this enough! DO NOT GET TEIN S-TECHS those are garbage.

You will feel as if you were driving a different car...
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#25 Old 01-27-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin'Joe View Post
DDZ, you got both of the Whiteline bars for $183 total including shipping? That's an awesome deal! I still haven't bought a front sway since I don't track much and since the front sway is 19 or 20mm (I foget off the top of my head), I went with the 20mm rear for the more neutral approach that you speak of. I might just get front end links and not a bar since I really like the difference in cornering I already have. Even on the soft setting of the 20mm rear bar was good, but I moved it to the medium setting to play with it and I still have trouble pushing oversteer. I have deemed it good for now. I have strongly been considering an anti-lift kit though, but I don't want too harsh of a ride for daily drivin' ya know...
Get Whitelines mild one, not the race one, not the softest one. The mild one would work great and it would not affect the ride feeling...
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#26 Old 01-28-2010, 01:49 AM
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Thanks for the good feedback Fuapiti, I went with the 20mm rear sway just because I knew I wouldn't have a front one for awhile (it was either get both sways and no end links, both end links and no sways, or one full side so of course rear was first, lol) and I wanted the neutrality with the ability to up it later when I get the front bar/links kit. With the stock 20mm front bar (it may be 19mm though, forgot) the 20 on the rear immediately felt great! Less body roll and the understeer was neutralized for the most part. I put it on the middle hole (they say soft=20mm, med=22mm, and hard setting=24mm bar comparison) and it's maybe a little much for now, but it's still great.
I'd love some new coilovers, but they're out of the budget currently.
As for the ALK, I agree with the sport option on hardness. I believe the "normal" bushings are duro hardness of 70, sports are 80, and the race are 90... Something close to that. I really think I might get the ALK before I get the front sway and links, lol. The set up now isn't bad at all and I don't really track it so, I will order some when I get back in town! Thanks again!


Oh, and as soon as I burn these P.O.S. Dunlop's off my car, I'll definitely be getting some new rubber!

Joe

Only use roads to get to the dirt; Then keep it sideways! >;D

Last edited by Smokin'Joe; 01-28-2010 at 01:50 AM. Reason: :P
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#27 Old 01-28-2010, 04:44 PM
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#28 Old 01-29-2010, 01:33 AM
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Holy crap! 600 HP! hahahaha. The Dominator 4.0XT-R Full Ball Bearing Turbocharger, looks pretty sick indeed I still would blow my tranny so first things first... Thanks for the jolt of excitement though, LOL.

Joe

Only use roads to get to the dirt; Then keep it sideways! >;D
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#29 Old 11-14-2010, 02:49 PM
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Newbe bringing up an old thread with a new question (see, I used the search function). I will pickup up my '11 WRX wagon in a week. Initial mods will be VERY limited due to the potential for warranty issues (I just don't want the potential hassle, after having had both good & bad luck in the past). I'm basing initial mod ideas on what I have read over the past 6 weeks that the car has been on order, since I haven't driven a WRX long enough to really feel details.

ANYWAY, my question is how much benefit can you get out of changing the rear endlinks & sway bar mounting bushings, but leaving the stock bars? It seems that getting rid of the slop and allowing the rear bar to more quickly react would be quite a benefit on initial turn-in, and the lack of flex in the non-bar components would emulate a somewhat larger than stock sized bar. Of course, there would not be as much benefit as a larger bar, but as a step in the right direction, would I notice it?

Next question, assuming I did this to the rear bar, should I also do the same to the front? Seems to me I would trade the quicker response (nice) for a higher understeer tendency, offsetting the gains made in the rear.

Final question: where to order bushings? Just try the links identified above for aftermarket bars?
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#30 Old 11-14-2010, 03:05 PM
 
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WaveBye, I've not seen what kind of links and bushings the 2011s have on them, but if you plan to upgrade the bar in the future, you'll end up replacing the bushings again, due to size differences. Replacing the links is not going to increase the rigidity of the rear bar noticeably IMO. Personally, I would wait until you replace the bar and select your parts to work well together.

I think you can get as much reduction in understeer by changing your tire pressures (always the first place to start when setting up a car for the track) More pressure in the rear, or less in the front will reduce understeer.

Here's the simple view: Whichever end of the car is losing grip first (understeer front, oversteer rear) you want to soften the suspension, or stiffen up the opposite end (you can start with tire pressure). That's why a larger stiffer rear bar is the first step in improving the handling of the WRX. Many of the rally/rallycross guys simply remove the front bar altogether, but they want a very compliant suspension for soft surfaces. For better grip on pavement, stiffer is the way to go.

I hope all that babbling helps

Last edited by wagonracer; 11-14-2010 at 07:28 PM.
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