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Understeer Compensation...

9K views 29 replies 14 participants last post by  wagonracer 
#1 ·
Well, I am well aware of what a sway bar does, and I'm also somewhat in tune with all the movement going on in the chassis while hitting turns and such. I want to improve handling all around and rid some if not all of the understeer in the process. I can't buy everything all at once so I'm looking at lining things up in a strategic manner for purchase. My options have been narrowed to the Front Strut Tower Brace or Rear Sway Bar and End Links for the first purchase. It's a little confusing as to how much effect I will see with either by itself and I won't be getting the front sway for a bit yet.

So what would be the better first pick of the two (even though the rear sway and end links count as one and will be significantly more expensive than the strut tower brace). I'm leaning towards the strut brace along with the stiffer transmission mount...

Any input and experience would be greatly appreciated on this! Thanks and Happy New Year! :rocks:
 
#2 ·
From the reaing and research I have done, the way the EJ engines are built and placed in the engine bay you really dont get much from a strut bar, at least on a daily driver. For better handling and getting rid of the factory understeer a nice (adjustable) swaybar and good enlinks are the way to go. Idk if anyone else can back that up. But I know that throwing on some tranny mounts are a really nice upgrade also. But if I were you (and Im kind of in your situation) I would go with the sways first.
 
#5 ·
Excellent feed back guys, thanks! I heard the same from a guy who wanted to sell me shizz so I had to check with 'the crew' first and make sure of what's really going to be the most effective. I definitely know there's alot of slop in the body roll of the WRX model and I just don't know the car well enough to pin point it, but had the idea that the rear sway would isolate a good bit of it. So rear sway and end links first (well the tranny mount is a heck of alot cheaper so that might squeak in first, but I need my buddy to help mount that piece). It does seem like the strut brace would do some good up front though, just no where near what I'm getting the sway will do in the rear. SOLD! So with that in check, any experience with comparing the Whiteline, Perrin, Cobb, ect. bars? it seems they all come with the polyurethane mount bushings, but are all different (i.e. hollow, solid, all kinds of bent, straight bar). I don't plan on hitting the track too much, but I do DRIVE the dang thing when I can let loose from the herd :sneaky: I personally have been close on Whiteline and Perrin. Perrin is cheaper and looks quite nice since the older 'noisy' ones and have heard no complaints, but Whiteline has always put the quality out there without the bling so they say. Uncompromised. Thanks for all your help and feed back guys. It's a warm place to go when it's snowing outside :cool:
 
#7 ·
Thanks Thack, those definitely look well made and the price is right for sure. I'm wondering though, since those are not adjustable I guess you're either happy with them or you'll get used to it eh? lol. If Perrin would make theirs in black or anything but red (even green, I mean why red everything?!) I would just grab that, but the Whiteline looks nice and professional and clean as well. The powdercoating is almost a must for something so close to the road imho. One ding and here comes the rust ya know. I guess it'll happen to any of them. I need mo' money and then I wouldn't even care to be so picky, lol. Thanks again though man, that's a good site to look at anyways. I'm always comparing =D
 
#8 ·
oh yeah, the one i have for my 03 is adj. so I would want that, from what Ive heard from other 08 09 owners, they like the rallitek endlinks paired with perrin bars, but I like whiteline much more. I have had good experiences with whiteline as well as perrin. Now it may be different for newer wrxs, but I once put a strut bar on my 03 and I could not feel a difference even when pushing it hard, i think they are more for looks and maybe some really pro drivers who are in-tune with their cars can tell the difference but its very small. for the front I would do a front sway, or h-brace to stiffen it up. theres also good tires to help if you dont already have those, just a thought
 
#9 ·
When shopping for sway bars, and consulting my shop their advice was to go as big as you can in the rear (but also making sure its adjustable) and the brands the recommended were Cobb, Hotchkis, and Whiteline. Pretty much in that order, and the endlinks the recommended were either the rallitek or the kartboy endlinks. I rode in 2 different STIs before, one with whiteline (kartboy endlinks), one with Cobb bars (rallitek endlinks). I honestly couldnt feel the difference in just riding, but I knew that both cars rode and handlen much better than my stock setup.
 
#11 ·
Also, if you're don't want to spend 5-600 on both front and rear bars and endlinks start off with just the rear bar and links. Basically the bigger the bar in the rear and the smaller the bar in the front, the more understeer you take out of the ride. Personally, I have the 25mm front bar and 22mm rear bar from Perrin. Front bar is on the "soft" setting, rear bar is in the middle, and I feel pretty neutral/slight oversteer. I'm thinking about cranking the rear bar up and see what happens now that I'm used to the feeling. WARNING: Get a feel for the way the car handles before you go taking turns at 50, it won't turn like you're used to and you can kill yourself.
 
#12 ·
Yeah, I'm really curious as to the change in feel this mod will provide and there's no way I would just go "it's all good I got a new rear sway" while taking a turn way over the limit (which I can do now for the most part with some solid confidence in feel of the car).

I have been eyeing the Whiteline bar the most now, but I can agree with Josh's tuner's advice that I don't want an adjustable end link. The Kartboy's seem to be the best that I've seen for clean and solid, since the Rallitek's look like the OEM ones with just a better weld and urethane bushings.

I didn't even think about looking for used stuff. Probably because I don't want any chance for failure and no warrany on the part I guess, but I certainly am always looking for a deal, lol.
 
#13 ·
i put a whiteline rear sway bar on my 09. it's a huge improvement!! you'll be a lot more confident in the corners. plus the sway bar came with two support bars, so that was a bonus. i've got mine set on the middle setting with stock endlinks, i'll upgrade those later on.
 
#14 ·
Be mindfull of Whiteline bars and KB endlinks.... Try to do a little research on bar/link combos. I'm not downing KB as I love their stuff.... Just look around. I recommend Perrin/Perrin... Or COBB/KB.....my .02.....
 
#15 ·
The rallitek endlinks are exactly like stock in theory, just ALOT beffier, and stronger material. Just a thought. I have seen them in person, and compared them to stock. ONe of my old friends participater in auto-x as much as he could with Cobb bars and rallitek endlinks (for at least 2 yrs that I knew him) and he never had an issue with them.
 
#16 ·
I haven't been able to find any feedback from anyone with the Whiteline bar and mating it with Rallitek endlinks... that's what I'm thinking but I might just go with the whiteline non adjustable endlinks instead and be assured they'll mate up well. After looking at the end links more they are definitely nicer than I had originally given them credit so with the great price on them I am more than willing to check 'em out! Just don't know about the match up. I keep getting back and forth answers on the adjustable end links too, but I am pretty positive that I should keep it simple and just do the solid links... but I just don't know! Will I be able to properly adjust them if I got them? Not likely. Don't get them.. But they look way better! But you'll never see them... And they're more expensive... Ok, I guess I won't get them, lol. I'm sorry you had to see the guy on my left and right shoulders go at it like that, LoL
 
#17 ·
Lol, I just shot an email to my guys in WA, see if I can get an answer within a day or so from them, see what they say. I know the Rallitek links worked with the Cobb adjustable sways (he used the middle setting for street, the "stiffest" setting for auto-x). I asked them if they would work without problems for the Whiteline. I have never seen Whiteline bars so I cant help, sorry. I have seen Perrin, Cobb, Cusco, and Hotchkis though, lol.
 
#18 ·
I ended up getting a price for the Whiteline rear sway and adj. end links shipped for less than the regular price of the sway and solid links (well not the ralliteks) without shipping. Hard times suck, but we're all in to help each other out if you look at it. I've gone through a tone of "how to's" and it's relatively a simple approach to get the bar set up without preloading and at level no matter the adjustment you use on the sway bar. This is what got me since I'm sort of a perfectionist and if it's not a perfect 90° you're not getting ALL of the benefits. I don't see the point in getting SOME of the expensive @$$ part I just bought and installed ya know. Here's an interesting link I found while going through the internet link madness:

 
#20 ·
Smokin' Joe -
As soon as you get done w/ your sways & end links and get used to the feel of your improved handling, you may want to upgrade your chassis bushings to remedy the inherent slop in the stock rubber units.
I'm running a 20mm WL rear bar w/ RT end links along with WL chassis & drivetrain bushings - KDT902 & KDT903. I also replaced the stock tranny mount w/ a Group N. The chassis feels so much tighter & shifting is so much more direct with just a hint more NVH throughout. For improved shifting, I can also recommend RT's shifter bushing and the STI Group N shifter bushing to tighten it up quite a bit more.
IMO, a car with this performance potential should have come with these bits on it from the factory.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for the good input Kingsalami (lol at the name :p). I have a Perrin STS adapter with the bushings and that was quite a nice improvement. The Group N tranny mount is on the list as well, and is quite cheap to boot when compared to other mods. How much of a pain were the other sub chassis bushings to install? Also, how do you like the rear sway and what setting are you using? I was looking at some of the chassis braces (lower front more than any others) for reduced body roll and such. It's a work in progress of course, but I don't want the thing so tight that getting into the dirt bends shizz, ya know, lol.
 
#22 ·
I just installed Whiteline sways: adjustable 24mm front set to softest setting(most rearward hole) and 22mm adjustable rear set to the middle hole that I picked up from Geoff at cygnusperformance.com. Geoff was really easy to deal with, is an all around good guy and I had them in two days($183 shipped). The rear bar came with Whiteline's brace supports that were the most difficult part of the entire install- need a 17mm socket and a 4 foot cheater bar :0). I read up a lot about the various end links available and settled on AVO adjustable rear endlinks($115) and avo adjustable front links($79). The rear links use polyurethane bushings and a beefier top mount than stock and the fronts are much more substantial versions of the stock setup with adjustability. They transformed the car...much more neutral(I've owned three 911's, the last with JIC coilovers and tracked) and was really looking for a more balanced corner entry. The design of the end links avoid the problems many have described with noise developing over time with Perrin links, offer the added benefit of length adjustability when I decide to move on with coilovers and don't have the problem I've seen in some setups of the end links being at an extreme angle ...check them out at avoturboworld.com. I also installed a Tanabe strut brace and noticed a very small improvement only in very spirited driving. I think the proximity of the strut towers to the firewall structure is inherently rigid so the strut brace is probably more bling than bang for the buck.
 
#23 ·
DDZ, you got both of the Whiteline bars for $183 total including shipping? That's an awesome deal! I still haven't bought a front sway since I don't track much and since the front sway is 19 or 20mm (I foget off the top of my head), I went with the 20mm rear for the more neutral approach that you speak of. I might just get front end links and not a bar since I really like the difference in cornering I already have. Even on the soft setting of the 20mm rear bar was good, but I moved it to the medium setting to play with it and I still have trouble pushing oversteer. I have deemed it good for now. I have strongly been considering an anti-lift kit though, but I don't want too harsh of a ride for daily drivin' ya know...
 
#25 ·
DDZ, you got both of the Whiteline bars for $183 total including shipping? That's an awesome deal! I still haven't bought a front sway since I don't track much and since the front sway is 19 or 20mm (I foget off the top of my head), I went with the 20mm rear for the more neutral approach that you speak of. I might just get front end links and not a bar since I really like the difference in cornering I already have. Even on the soft setting of the 20mm rear bar was good, but I moved it to the medium setting to play with it and I still have trouble pushing oversteer. I have deemed it good for now. I have strongly been considering an anti-lift kit though, but I don't want too harsh of a ride for daily drivin' ya know...
Get Whitelines mild one, not the race one, not the softest one. The mild one would work great and it would not affect the ride feeling...
 
#24 ·
My personal experience with suspension tuning on my Subaru (GD chassis):

get bigger sways (I got Cuscos 22mm and I love them) better endlinks (I got Perrin, work great, sound horrible), Get better tires on wider rims (I got Potenza RE01-R's on SSR C-RS, could have gotten wider tires but these work just fine for EDU and have lasted for far more than what I expected) and get A GOOD SPRING/SHOCK setup. Can't stress this enough! DO NOT GET TEIN S-TECHS those are garbage.

You will feel as if you were driving a different car...
 
#26 · (Edited)
Thanks for the good feedback Fuapiti, I went with the 20mm rear sway just because I knew I wouldn't have a front one for awhile (it was either get both sways and no end links, both end links and no sways, or one full side so of course rear was first, lol) and I wanted the neutrality with the ability to up it later when I get the front bar/links kit. With the stock 20mm front bar (it may be 19mm though, forgot) the 20 on the rear immediately felt great! Less body roll and the understeer was neutralized for the most part. I put it on the middle hole (they say soft=20mm, med=22mm, and hard setting=24mm bar comparison) and it's maybe a little much for now, but it's still great.
I'd love some new coilovers, but they're out of the budget currently.
As for the ALK, I agree with the sport option on hardness. I believe the "normal" bushings are duro hardness of 70, sports are 80, and the race are 90... Something close to that. I really think I might get the ALK before I get the front sway and links, lol. The set up now isn't bad at all and I don't really track it so, I will order some when I get back in town! Thanks again!


Oh, and as soon as I burn these P.O.S. Dunlop's off my car, I'll definitely be getting some new rubber!
 
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