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Lowering Springs misconception

37K views 59 replies 26 participants last post by  xmjsilverx 
#1 · (Edited)
I believe it's time to just flat out explain why lowering springs do not improve your handling. It infact should worsen it. The rate of your stock springs and your stock shocks were made to work with each other. The fact is that the stock shocks were not designed to handle the increased rate of an aftermarket spring. This also causes more wear and tear on the stock shocks. The wheels on the car will oscillate in a manner that will actually reduce wheel contact with the ground. The more the springs are compressed the larger the oscillations will be, thus meaning the harder you push your car, the worse it will handle.

What, you want proof? Okay, here it is. This following is an excerpt from the book Training WRX 2nd Edition by Nick Warne. These are track times provided by Whiteline's Project REX I and II. NOT QUARTER MILE. Car was required to do atleast a minimum of 4 laps, more if the driver felt he could do it faster. Professional driver running with Falken GrB's 205/50/16 tires with moderate tread.

Vehicle: MY99 WRX sedan

Session 1
Conditions: Steady light rain
Suspension: Stock
Seconds: 0.00 (base)

Session 6
Conditions: Light rain, standing water
Suspension: Stock w/ KCA319 Anti-lift kit
Seconds: -0.79 (.79 seconds faster)

Session 8
Conditions: Light rain, track drying
Suspension: Stock w/ same ALK and aftermarket lowered heavy duty springs
Seconds: -0.23

Let's recap. If the ALK provides a gain of 0.79 seconds, that means the lowering springs made the car atleast a half second slower. Keep in mind this is also while track conditions were improving.

... I'm sure someone will ask later, so I'll just say it now. Larger rear sway bar alone provided a full second faster track time.


It's plain and simple, if you want it for cosmetic reasons, there is nothing wrong with a set of springs. It's cheap and accomplishes your goal of eliminating that crazy front wheel gap. Most people probably never push their car hard enough under daily driving to feel the effects of it. Just be mindful that your shocks will probably go sooner than with stock springs.

To lower a car properly, you need to either match up the spring with a set of shocks, or do a full blown set of coilovers.

Also check out this write up. They did an excellent job. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030221
 
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#2 ·
i would just like to thank you for providing such useful information. I didn't know that lowering you car the "improper" way would actual slow your quarter mile times.

I knew the rear sway bar is probably the most important handling mod, but i didn't think it would make 1/4 mile times 1 second faster.

Great thread...

Thanks!Thumbs Up
 
#7 · (Edited)
I guess I should have explained it a bit more. It was conducted at a track, not a drag strip. The driver was required to do a minimum of 4 laps and more if he felt he could do it faster. Professional driver of course. Tires were Falken GrB's 205/50/16 with moderate tread. Again, all information about the track, tests, and times were straight out of the book since I do not have the means to test such a thing.

As a side note, although I did not talk about quarter mile times, an ALK MAY improve your 1/4 mile times (I don't really know), because it's supposed to reduce dive under hard accelleration. Unfortunally, it also has a side effects where it increases dive on braking (although nothing I would be to be concerned about safety wise). I do have an ALK installed on my car and it really takes higher speeds to appreciate the advantages it gives.
 
#9 ·
There is just way too much information to post regarding all the track results. However, since it was done by Whiteline, I was able to find the article on their website. Here's how to get to it.

Go here http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/Project/P-REX-1/default.htm

Scroll down to the bottom. On the right, it says Click here to read the lastest WRX suspension test results in Hot 4's magazine.

Click next page until you find the tables.

Keep in mind, Project Rex I is on the older model WRX's that we do not have here in the states. Items like the strut tower brace will not provide as much benifit for us than it did for the older model cars. The 02+ chassis are much stiffer. They do later state that after a heavily suspension modified car, then you may begin to feel the benifits of chassis bracing.
 
#10 ·
very useful info,
a lot of people think the lower center of gravity would have a positive affect on handling, which it does but when the spring rate differs with the spring to the shock, you basically have conflicting parts in a sense. working against eachother and not with eachother..
 
#14 ·
ok, question for vew or anyone who has the answer.

arent there springs out there that are designed for the stock shocks? so they will give you a lower ride, but the spring rate is designed for the stock shock?
i dunno just curious, incase there is someone out there that wants to lower it but scared of shock damage.
 
#15 ·
eighth08 said:
ok, question for vew or anyone who has the answer.

arent there springs out there that are designed for the stock shocks? so they will give you a lower ride, but the spring rate is designed for the stock shock?
i dunno just curious, incase there is someone out there that wants to lower it but scared of shock damage.
That was the exact question I asked Big Sky when I was looking at springs. Plus, I needed something which would work on a wagon. His answer: Prodrives.

I believe Eibach manufactures them, but they don't have the same rates as the Eibach sport springs, or whatever they call their lowering springs. I also took his advice on finding donor struts to build a complete set of street/track struts, without chopping up my stockers. My dealer buddy found 2, now I need 2 more.
 
#17 ·
eighth08 said:
ok, question for vew or anyone who has the answer.

arent there springs out there that are designed for the stock shocks? so they will give you a lower ride, but the spring rate is designed for the stock shock?
i dunno just curious, incase there is someone out there that wants to lower it but scared of shock damage.

Perrin "Tunner Sport Springs" are (accroding to Perrin) designed for stock struts.. Check out the Perrin page for more info or my home page for pictures of them installed... !Thumbs Up
 
#18 ·
the only problem i have with what companies claim, is that they make products to make money, yes i know thats how businesses stay a business, but sometimes they bend the truth or make things seem better then they appear. such as perrin, i love the company, one of my favorite companies. but its like "designed for the stock strut" can also mean its designed to fit, not necessarily designed to work well with... i would like to see peoples experiences with lowering springs and what their personal experiences were with them ya know?
 
#35 ·
Well, all of the inforamtion in the first post came from Whiteline testing Whiteline's products. Of course they are going to say that their stuff works the best and everything else is crap. You do not need to 'match' springs and shocks to get a performance improvement. It's certainly the _best_ way to do it, but not at all necesary. The only way lowering springs are ever going to make your car handle worse is if they lower the car so much that the stock strut bottoms out. As long as the strut has enough travel to support the spring you are using, you will be fine, and the car will handle better. If you get the right set of springs, the stock shocks will work fine, and they will improve your track times.
 
#19 ·
Consider this then. In order to lower the car, the spring's length has to be shorter. That means the weight of the car will compress the shocks until it meets the top of the spring and the resistance holds up the entire car. Shocks were not made to be partically compressed 24/7 more than it was origionally meant to. This would also be what leads to faster wear on the shock itself.

Going back to the aftermarket spring, they're shorter in overall length so the car can sit lower. This is the obvious. They say it's made to work with the stock shocks, okay, but think about it. It doesn't make sense. If it's made with the same rate as the stock shocks, then you would bottom them out (one reason why cutting stock springs are bad) on major turns, braking, or on acceleration. The only way to compensate for that is to make the spring stiffer, and thus avoid bottoming out the shocks. But if the spring is stiffer, it no longer works with the stock shock.

Maybe there's some spring manufacturing secret that I'm not aware of and defies the laws of physics... I guess I did get a C in physics for engineering majors :poorme:

I've been reading some stuff and I'm quite impressed how Whiteline is not hiding the facts about lowering springs. Take a look at this link, it's also full of great information.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/faqsprings.htm
 
#21 ·
eighth08 said:
ok, question for vew or anyone who has the answer.

arent there springs out there that are designed for the stock shocks? so they will give you a lower ride, but the spring rate is designed for the stock shock?
i dunno just curious, incase there is someone out there that wants to lower it but scared of shock damage.
The Eibach Sport and the Prodrives (which are made by Eibach).
 
#22 ·
so what your saying instead of getting lowering springs for 200 bucks, save your money and get coilovers, because you are going to end up replacing your stock shocks and struts to shorter and stiffer, and after all said and done you could have bought coilovers and be done with it.
 
#24 ·
Don't get me wrong. It's a cheap way to get rid of the wheel gap. In fact, I'll be getting lowering springs over the summer. Just as long as you realize it will worsen your handling, and put more stress on your stock shocks. As of now, the gains for me are better than what I lose since most of my cash already went into handling, and right now, I'm concentrating on visuals.
 
#26 ·
Here's why lowering springs can be troublesome for MacPherson strut setups



As you lower the vehicle, control arms become closer to paralell or in extreme cases lower than parallel!- this reduces the roll center which quite simply means the car is going to roll more - everything else being even.

To compensate for the reduction in roll center, lowering spring must increase spring rates- if they stay at stock or near stock rates- your performance is degrading, not improving.

There are springs available that lower modestly and increase spring rates, that will net you performance gains. The oe dampers (especially the 04+ ones) provide a fair amount of damping so if spring rates aren't too awful high, they'll do adequately matched w/ one of these springs.

The ideal setup would include moderate lowering, a good bump in spring rates with a well damped strut- fortunately these can be had :) Obviously optimizing alignment settings go a long way in increasing grip as well.

There will be a product on the market soon that will reverse the negative geometry effect of lowering- it simply provides a spacer to lengthen the lower ball joint so the lower arm goes less parallel. It will also provide a spacer for the tie rod so bump steer doesn't then become an issue.

This will allow you to have your cake and eat it too :)
 
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