Coilover Development Program - Subaru WRX Forum
 
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#1 Old 01-30-2012, 01:37 PM
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Exclamation Coilover Development Program

Gday all.

We are currently undergoing development of or next line of products. Im look for some help from you guys here. For this batch of product we are aiming to fine tune our suspenions to specific applications.

We want to soften our spring or possably go progressive in our blue line while going lower ride heights accross the board. Also trying to figure out how stiff to go on the street/ track and our track specific product lines.

What im looking for is this.

Street guys: what kinda of ride heighs you run. wheels sizes, what kinds of spring you using now (spring rate would be awsome if u know em) and you feeling on the setup and ways you would improve it.

Track guys: pretty much the same thing. if you tracking you car i would assume you know you spring rates....lets talk...

where were at now its we have extremely similar spring rates to cetraing green bodies and orange bodied competitors. but we know that you cant get anywhere by sitting still...help us out here ppl, this is your chance.

thanks

Last edited by craig@neo; 01-30-2012 at 01:43 PM. Reason: typos
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#2 Old 02-02-2012, 08:38 PM
 
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Wow, surprised at the lack of replies....

I've been running whiteline springs (forget what they called them) 260# F and 235# R (progressive) with Noltec plates and Koni adjustable struts for a few years, and now D-specs. Don't know exactly what my ride height is...

With both strut set-ups, that spring rate has worked well with 25mm hollow adjustable sways for a decent street ride/track grip compromise. I used R-compound Hankooks with these for a couple of seasons and competed well in TT. Since I am in a wagon, coilover options were limited as was my budget. I'd be interested in helping you develop track oriented coilovers, should you need some real world feedback.

On my race car (spec944) 375# F combined with rear torsion bars (340# roughly) was the fast set-up, on a corner balanced 2600# car. I would estimate that a reasonable track set-up for a 3200# WRX would be around 425# F and 350# rear. Not exactly a comfy street ride though

PM if you like

Cullen

Last edited by wagonracer; 02-02-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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#3 Old 02-02-2012, 09:19 PM
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The reason you have a lack of response, at least from me, is because I know that my input is not what they were asking about. I would be less worried about what they were addressing and more concerned that they should use quality dampers, unlike a lot of the competitors. However I realize that this is not the market that they are likely targeting.
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#4 Old 02-03-2012, 09:40 AM
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I agree with Brfatal. I specifically avoid suspension parts designed with lowering. I would look for increased spring rates without an excessive 1" drop or similar. I don't track my car, I don't want to grind my teeth across bumps for some visual enhancement. I've been drooling over RCE black springs, which are 285F/269R with less than an inch drop and progressive.

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#5 Old 02-03-2012, 10:14 AM
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I ran Tein H-techs for about two years. They looked good, but the ride when it was really cold wasn't good at all. I switched to Mach V springs for this winter and the ride is much better and I don't really notice a difference in height. My car is driven daily on crappy Chicago roads so I wanted comfort, but I still wanted to get rid of the wheel gap. Don't much care about handling since I just drive back and forth in bumper to bumper traffic.

Both spring rub the wheels when the trunk is full and I have both my kids in the back. Only when I'm going up a steep driveway or something.

Wheels are 17x7, 40 offset with 225/45/17 tires

Tein H-Tech
Spring Rate (02-03 WRX): F 196lb/in R 140lb/in
Drop (02-03 WRX): F 1.4in R 0.6in
Spring Rate (04-07 WRX): F 229lb/in R 196lb/in
Drop (04-07 WRX): F 1.6in R 1.1in

Mach V /Swift
Lowers the car about 1.0" in the front, 3/4" in the rear.

Spring rates are 175 lb/in front, 116-156 (progressive) rear.

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#6 Old 02-03-2012, 11:43 AM
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I ran H-Tech's for a while before I knew better. The handling was compromised and the ride quality destroyed.

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#7 Old 02-03-2012, 02:38 PM
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Thanks for the response guys. I just wanna start by saying this. I realize we are stuck in the same catagory that alot of people guage as junk. This is why we are revamping our products.

With that said, were headed are out to the shock dyno shop next week. The dyno is actually owned by one of our competitiors, but they are willing to help us out.

I should have some info posted mid week next week.

Secondly maybe it would be easier if i just ask people what they wanted out of a coilover and what they are willing to spend.

Im pretty sure its something like this
1)quality. noone want to pay for shyt that breaks
2)functional valving. weve all heard stories about the 32way adjustments that take 18 clicks before yo notice anything
but lmk guys

what interestes you. what kinda of ride heights do you want. how much adjustment do you want (hi sp low speed comp and rebound). what about remote resivors (would you really want to cut hole in you fenderwells to mount them) do you want light weight or do you want durability. do you want cheap or reliable. as well all know with tuning everything is comprimises....

im aiming to make sure that our street, street/track and track specific products meet the needs of each consumer base. this is not an easy task. we offer products for ALOT of applications and i intend to make sure each application is specificcaly tuned...thanks everyone

Last edited by craig@neo; 02-03-2012 at 02:41 PM. Reason: typos
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#8 Old 02-03-2012, 03:40 PM
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I'm by no means a suspension guru, but I have purchased twice now, as of today, swift springs. This is because they have a very clear mission statement front and center on their parts that their primary goals are ride comfort and performance, and could care less about wheel gap. Again, I'm no expert but that spoke to me. I had them recommended from several other Subaru owners. I feel like most of us are a little bit elitist, so if the Honda/ Nissan crowd is all over it, we are trying not to be there. ie fashion over function.

I'm not trying to go way off topic, or irritate anyone. Those are just my views that led me to give a company my money twice. And I understand you are looking for technical advice, but that kind of marketing (let the kids high five over slammed civics, while you improve the quality of your car) worked well on me, just thought I'd pass it on.

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#9 Old 02-03-2012, 04:28 PM
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Well I've been around the community now for almost a decade and I think WRX drivers in general tend to be more performance oriented than visual oriented. AWD is a heavy and power robbing addition for people who just want to go fast in a straight line and look good doing it. Because of this, there is certainly a gap between a lot of the suspension parts on the market and the ones you're hearing people describe.

I'm not one for adjustability on a street car, the concept never made sense to me. The car has a very flexible drivetrain that deals very well with a variety of road conditions and I can't imagine equipping a suspension system that couldn't do the same. That means Snow, not just dry pavement. If I really wanted to track the car, it'd have a roll cage in it and frankly, there are a lot of high performance coilovers on the market to choose from. I mean, I have a carseat in my STi. I'm not looking for a reduction in wheel gap as a motivator for a purchase. Because of this, I've generally held that a more conventional spring and strut setup is more cost effective. They tend to last longer and cost less with the main drawback being a lack of adjustability. I have a lot of namebrand parts on my car, I'm not afraid to spend money for quality either.

So if you guys were making a product line decision based on that kind of thinking, I would say build something very long-lasting with a substantial improvement in springrate while maintaining stock-like ride quality. I've heard it argued by many very smart suspension gurus that by using better suspension components, you can get more performance without sacrificing ride quality yet I've never seen a setup that really delivers. I'd also want something that would last a long time. I'm not going to put my car up on blocks for 2 weeks out of the year while I send off the coilovers for a rebuild.

All that said, I'm not sure how characteristic of all Subaru WRX drivers I am. Fair warning if your mosc-coils flop

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#10 Old 02-04-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosc View Post
Well I've been around the community now for almost a decade and I think WRX drivers in general tend to be more performance oriented than visual oriented. AWD is a heavy and power robbing addition for people who just want to go fast in a straight line and look good doing it. Because of this, there is certainly a gap between a lot of the suspension parts on the market and the ones you're hearing people describe.

I'm not one for adjustability on a street car, the concept never made sense to me. The car has a very flexible drivetrain that deals very well with a variety of road conditions and I can't imagine equipping a suspension system that couldn't do the same. That means Snow, not just dry pavement. If I really wanted to track the car, it'd have a roll cage in it and frankly, there are a lot of high performance coilovers on the market to choose from. I mean, I have a carseat in my STi. I'm not looking for a reduction in wheel gap as a motivator for a purchase. Because of this, I've generally held that a more conventional spring and strut setup is more cost effective. They tend to last longer and cost less with the main drawback being a lack of adjustability. I have a lot of namebrand parts on my car, I'm not afraid to spend money for quality either.

So if you guys were making a product line decision based on that kind of thinking, I would say build something very long-lasting with a substantial improvement in springrate while maintaining stock-like ride quality. I've heard it argued by many very smart suspension gurus that by using better suspension components, you can get more performance without sacrificing ride quality yet I've never seen a setup that really delivers. I'd also want something that would last a long time. I'm not going to put my car up on blocks for 2 weeks out of the year while I send off the coilovers for a rebuild.

All that said, I'm not sure how characteristic of all Subaru WRX drivers I am. Fair warning if your mosc-coils flop
I'll agree with this. The budget coilover market for Imprezas is saturated at the moment. To stand out you really need to take damper tuning into real consideration. This is where the the lower end coilovers fall on their face. BCs, K-Sport, Stance, Megan, etc at all over spring and under damped without ordering a completely custom set. And only BC does this of those I listed, but nobody ever takes advantage of it because the people that order these don't really know what to order since they don't know much about suspension design. Those companies put out stuff that might as well be randomly grabbed out of a parts bin. Well matched springs/dampers are one of the reasons that BMWs handle amazingly well while at the same time offer great ride characteristics. But, I'm sure you knew this. I've spend almost $90k in parts modding my car over the last 10, but as it gets almost all of it's use on the street, I've determined that a $2,500 set of coils would not see much use and most of the cheaper sets don't offer what I'm looking for compared to springs and strut (mosc addressed exactly what I'm talking about).

If you want to stand out, you're gonna need to create something that works very well (good spring/damper/bump stop tuning), reliable under expectable road conditions, and lasts. I realize that these are things that also drive prices up as well.
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#11 Old 02-04-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosc View Post
Well I've been around the community now for almost a decade and I think WRX drivers in general tend to be more performance oriented than visual oriented. AWD is a heavy and power robbing addition for people who just want to go fast in a straight line and look good doing it. Because of this, there is certainly a gap between a lot of the suspension parts on the market and the ones you're hearing people describe.
On top of that, most ride drops lower the front considerably more than the rear to eliminate the front wheel gap because the fenders are cut higher. We had a thread a while back discussing the repercussions of this and it had a lot of good info.

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