weak blocks? - Subaru WRX Forum
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#1 Old 02-21-2005, 11:02 PM
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weak blocks?

i was told from a friend who owns a wrx that they have weak blocks...and goin past 300whp without internals is not good?...is this true cause personally i think he is a moron, but i can be wrong....

....while im on the subject does any one know how much hp a sti can take b4 havin to touch internals?
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#2 Old 02-21-2005, 11:33 PM
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that sounds about right

any idea how much power 300whp is? thats around 400 crank hp. the 300whp mark is where engine reliability is starts to go away.

stockers do around 170whp and they are pretty quick
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#3 Old 02-21-2005, 11:50 PM
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i dont think its 400 crank.....maybe around 325-350....but damn that sucks....cause i heard about 1.8t vdubs holdin past that....and an srt4 that finally blew after 500hp to the crank w/o internals....

...thanks for the feedback
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#4 Old 02-22-2005, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nocsyn@templ
i dont think its 400 crank.....maybe around 325-350....but damn that sucks....cause i heard about 1.8t vdubs holdin past that....and an srt4 that finally blew after 500hp to the crank w/o internals....

...thanks for the feedback
an AWD car losses more than 8-15% of its power to drivetrain loss

its more like a 25% loss so 300whp is around 400 crank hp
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#5 Old 02-22-2005, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antyoo
an AWD car losses more than 8-15% of its power to drivetrain loss

its more like a 25% loss so 300whp is around 400 crank hp
yea some say 30....hell tats why my grocery getter sticks wit an evo from a roll
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#6 Old 02-22-2005, 01:20 PM
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grocery gitter...

that's an impressive grocery gitter... ?

i'm calling the B.S. flag, or your contender didn't know how to drive at all... or you grocery getter is ______. (places name of any number of different fast sports cars in blank)


anyways... yes a fairly well accepted figure for whp on stock rexy around 167... doing the math against a stock rexy billed at 227hp from the factory nets you about 25% drivetrain loss...

Evos appear to be a bit more efficient dynoing around 220-225 whp depending on who you ask, with more like 18-21% parasitic drivetrain loss... '

and yeah a dodge may have blown its internals at 500hp... but honestly you might get 500whp out of a rexy with stock internals, the idea is that it would not last long, just like i'm sure the dodge wouldn't, nor would it last very long over 300whp either... dodge blocks are no stronger or resistant to boost either... the only advantage it might have is that fact its a 2.4 liter, therefore does not need to realize as much boost pressure before hitting a certain HP level...

Now a 4g63 block is a reasonable comparison to make (mistus)... the 4G63 is a more knock-resistant block for a whole host of reasons, while being a 2.0l, it can realize more whp reliably on stock internals due to its resistance to knock... add boost, net whp... but increase the likelihood of knock, thus destroy engine more quickly. if you can add x boost w/out knock to one engine, but adding the same boost to another engine (of same displacement) ylds knock (assuming the same intake air variables and fuel variables)... then the engine resisting knock will be able to make more hp whilst remaining a reliable engine. its that simple.

so is a WRX block weak? well, ask the Honda boys what they think... there reliability threshold might average about 5-7 psi... and thats still probably pushing the limits. all the while a WRX is running almost 14lbs stock--- reliably. my WRX sleeps comfortably at 22psi, summer driven only... but it still works, over 55k miles so far. will it last as long as a stock wrx block that never exceeds 14psi... NO WAY! but neither will any other car of the same comparison (unless it was initially designed or internally modified to withstand 22psi regularly). Boost simply equals more wear on your engine and drivetrain, bottom line.

any questions? hehe.. . jk...

hope that clarifies though.
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#7 Old 02-22-2005, 02:05 PM
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i wanna know what the grocery getter is

my beater takes a good 15-20 seconds to go from 60mph to 80mph. i think my beater could keep up with an evo for about half a second while the guy downshifts to leave my ass behind
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#8 Old 02-22-2005, 02:43 PM
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A stock wrx block weak? well there is so many factors that go into that.. first and most important is the tune.. if you have a good tune you can push alot of hp with safety.. Kingpin is pushing out 500whp sti's on stock blocks.. Nathen at turboxs who is probly the best utec tuner out there has a few wrxs putting out 400whp.. needless to say all the 400whp wrxs are still running today.. maby the tranny didnt hold up but thats different..

my car is a great example.. my friend got tuned a turboxs and is putting down 325whp with a pe1820... i put down 298whp at turbo trix with my vf22 at 18+ psi.. he car runs soo much smoother and he doesnt get any det.. because he got tuned by the best utec tuner in the usa and i didnt.. soo this month iam heading down to turboxs to get a real tune..

Yes the stock internals are a limiting factor when it comes to power at a certain point.. also the block is an open deck block which doesnt like any higher then 20psi.. soo thoes are the limiting factors for power.. Det is what kills turbo motors 99% of the time.. if you have a det free tune and stay det free your motor could last a very long time at high hp levels.. the only reason to get forged pistons and rods and put them in a stock wrx block is for det protection.. you still cant run high boost because of it being an open deck block soo it wouldnt be worth building up.. find a semi closed deck block or closed deck block and get ready to make some BIG hp numbers..
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#9 Old 02-22-2005, 02:47 PM
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the hells DET?







sorry I had to
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#10 Old 02-22-2005, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroPunkFX
the hells DET?







sorry I had to



DET is short for detonation.
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#11 Old 02-22-2005, 03:43 PM
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"In standard form, with correct tuning procedures and the right bolt-ons, the WRX engine is capable of producing up to around 300 flywheel horsepower with little or no loss in reliability. If you wish to create (and keep) a "monster tune" engine producing up to and beyond 260hp at the wheels or 390 horsepower at the flywheel, some internal modification are prudent."

Pg 137 Training WRX 2nd Edition, by Nick Warne.

Jon
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#12 Old 02-22-2005, 03:55 PM
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vew
"In standard form, with correct tuning procedures and the right bolt-ons, the WRX engine is capable of producing up to around 300 flywheel horsepower with little or no loss in reliability. If you wish to create (and keep) a "monster tune" engine producing up to and beyond 260hp at the wheels or 390 horsepower at the flywheel, some internal modification are prudent."

Pg 137 Training WRX 2nd Edition, by Nick Warne.
all very subjective and has been discussed to death... what does "keep" mean. i could create it and keep it even if it did blow up, despite it would be sitting in my garage not moving...

and if he meant 'keep' running, then... how long did he mean? time in months? miles? at redline? or througout the rpm range?

see what i'm getting at... words often don't mean $hit.
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#13 Old 02-23-2005, 04:32 PM
 
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Hey blur, when you get the new tune give us the new numbers, I am interested in seeing how much better of a tuner Nathan is than that turbo Trix place you went to. Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit haha.
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#14 Old 02-24-2005, 09:08 AM
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ok ok ok, whut if I have a WRX with over 300whp but I don't abuse the crap outta the engine, then no worries right? I guess thats what you mean by "keep". Would I still have to do the internals? Cause that stuff is expensive.... I also wanted to know how much WHP can the tranny take? cause that Dog Box is expensive... LOL
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#15 Old 02-24-2005, 04:23 PM
 
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I have heard of people running 320 WHP on the stock tranny fine. It's all about how you drive it. Also when you say over 300 whp, how much over?
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