Water or alcohol injection question - Subaru WRX Forum
 
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#1 Old 11-08-2005, 07:28 AM
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Water or alcohol injection question

Years ago, water/alcohol injection was all the rage on high performance cars, especially high compression drag cars. It was used to quell detonation. This was before these fancy, schmancy ECU's and ECM's. My question is more on theory, as I'm not planning on doing it, but why aren't these systems used today (especially alcohol injection)? Are the benefits just not great enough to justify it?
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#2 Old 11-08-2005, 07:36 AM
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They are. Just not on the street. Intercoolers have come a long way. So has engine management. A lot of race cars still use water injection. The main problem I saw was reliability. Early water injection systems weren't very reliable. Also, the user had to make sure they kept water/alcohol in the tank, which didn't always happen. An intercooler is fool-proof.
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#3 Old 11-08-2005, 11:22 AM
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i drove an 87 Buick Grand National with Alcahol injection. it was rigged up to go only when you went WFO, and had a computer that cranked up the boost.

you could light up the rears doing 40.
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#4 Old 11-08-2005, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nose Nuggets
i drove an 87 Buick Grand National with Alcahol injection. it was rigged up to go only when you went WFO, and had a computer that cranked up the boost.

you could light up the rears doing 40.
that is all
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#5 Old 11-08-2005, 10:18 PM
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I read that a lot of people have had sucess on NASIOC. But, again, you have to make sure the tank is filled. Some installed a warning light when the tank was low. And/Or have an alternative map for running on and empty tank. I'd like to try it eventually.

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#6 Old 11-09-2005, 03:12 AM
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I run alcohol injection in my EVO every day of the week and twice in Sundays

Without the alcohol I could run around 21 or 22 psi boost on pump gas. Currently I am "self limited" to 26 psi becuase I still have stock internals, and I don't want to strees them too much.... but with upgraded internals I would be able to run 30 psi on 93 octane with the alcohol injection. I am seriously considering putting it on my wifes WRX now

Keith
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#7 Old 11-09-2005, 12:46 PM
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on a rich tune with little timing, my WRX gained 20whp from water injection

since then i have leaned her out and added about 3-5 degrees of timing everywhere
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#8 Old 11-25-2005, 02:33 PM
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I lost track of this thread. Thanks for the replies.

So assuming a reliable alcohol injection system (with a fluid level light), would there be as much of a cooling gain with that (more or less?), as with going to the next size up from stock (or larger) TMIC?

What I mean is, when I have the car pro-tuned (assuming I can weasel a vacation day at some point), would this be an add-on that the tuner could safely use to tune it up to a higher level of boost? Or am I completely out in left field?

Before I travel for hours and pay $ for tuner time and a hotel, I'm now wondering what I could do (without digging into heavy mod$) that would take me to a slightly higher level of performance? Boxer4Racing is telling me roughly 300 crank hp with the mods I have now (AP Stage 2 - 93 Octane), after the tune. Of course, they also want to sell me parts and/or install a 2.5 liter short block... which ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Larger injectors? Bigger intercooler? Ideas? An extra 10-15 hp is good enough... gotta be a little different, ya know.

Thanks in advance.
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#9 Old 11-26-2005, 04:51 PM
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the protune itself could be worth anywhere from 5-20whp depending on mods. If you're only looking for 10-15, i would skip the alky injection and get a bigger TMIC. I have the APS with my vf34 and it's a beaut. Helix is good AND cheap too. Throw on any other bolt-ons you would like, and take her in for a tune, you'll get your 10-15WHP without alky injections.

Thing i wold recommend:

make sure you exhaust is as free flowing as possible. replace up. heat wrap everything you can get your hands on (do it properly!!), EG-manifold, UP, DP, hot side of the turbo. Get heat shielding in place. make sure your car is in overall good mechanical condition before the tune (spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter etc), make sure you WG is tight enough to hit the higher boost levels you will be tuning for, phew, that's enough from me
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#10 Old 11-27-2005, 12:34 PM
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Thanks, Hondaeater. That's helpful: so a bigger TMIC would yield the same benefit (+/-) as going with an injection system. The hp increase I mentioned was actually on top of what I would gain from just getting the tune (in present state). The tuner's WAG was that I'd be close to 300 (crank) hp after the tune, with the mods I have now.

But it sounds like the best incremental gains (from where I am now) would come from making sure everything's in good working order and there's as little heat soak as possible - and getting a TMIC on order.

Gruppe-S totally screwed up my last order. I've about lost faith in their customer service. Maybe we can even things out if they have the right intercooler.
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