TMIC gains? - Subaru WRX Forum
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#1 Old 03-27-2005, 08:51 PM
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TMIC gains?

What kind of power gains could I expect from a TMIC upgrade? Also would it be worth it to just spend the extra money and get an FMIC? If so, what are the power gains from that? Sorry if this has already been asked but ive searched the past threads and havent really found much.
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#2 Old 03-28-2005, 06:17 AM
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Depends what mods you are running or planning to run.
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#3 Old 03-28-2005, 07:35 AM
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Are you talking about putting a TMIC on a stock car? You won't see any gains from doing just that. What it does is provides better cooling than the stock intercooler, so you can raise your boost to make more power. However, you can't raise your boost safely without adjusting your fuel and timing to compensate for it.

As for a FMIC, on a stock car it would make your car run worse. You would have more lag than stock.
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#4 Old 03-28-2005, 09:18 AM
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the TMIC is the best upgrade of all that i have done to my car, i went with the Spearco TMIC and the car runs incrideble in any weather, it is more consistent and the unit does not heat soak so the ECU does not pull out timing everytime i sit a t light for more than a minute! get the spearco it is the largest on the market. HP wise i would say around 20 on my car, it breathes so much better from 6k to 7k so it may only peak 20 hp but i bet it is more in the higher RPM's
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#5 Old 03-28-2005, 09:31 AM
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not to start an argument but cosmo i dont understand your statement that a better TMIC will give no gains? how can this be possible? if a better TMIC flows higher and cools better than it will make more power especially since the stock TMIC's are horrible. another thing, a FMIC will not make more lag......air is compressed not poured, once it makes atmospheric pressure (0 psi) it reacts the same no matter how long the piping is. what will happen is that your throttle response will suffer due to the length of the tubing but as soon as "0" is reached lag is gone.
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#6 Old 03-28-2005, 10:55 AM
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A TMIC can't increase the amount of air or fuel going into the engine. Therefore it can't increase power. If an intercooler flows better than the one it is replacing, it is conceivable that it will make more power by allowing more boost to build, but the stock Subaru TMIC is pretty free-flowing.

A FMIC has much more tubing which requires the turbo to flow more air to compress the air inside it before it becomes boost. That takes longer than filling the volume of space inside the TMIC. That extra time = lag. Don't believe me? Try it. I did on two different cars.
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#7 Old 03-28-2005, 06:34 PM
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the spearco TMIC flows 1000 cfm, the stock TMIC flows 650, you dont think the spearco flows more? i have one and it does flow better. more flow=more power and that does not even include the fact that the spearco unit is more effecient and does not heat soak that also increases power.

you are confusing throttle response with lag, they are not the same. as your boost gauge goes from vacuum to pressure it is a smooth transition. there is no "dead area" where there is no air in the pipes. as soon as you reach .0000001 psi of boost it is already there it does not take longer to go from that point to full boost because the air and boost is already compressed in the pipes. another one of those turbo myths. have you seen one of the rear mounted turbos in a viper? the turbo and pipng run all the way from the back of the car. you approximately 15' of piping! they make damn near instant boost. we dynod one and it made full boost by 3200 with twin gt35r's and it made 936h.p on pump gas!! the car is sluggish on "blipping" of the throttle but we just increased timing at those points to compensate for it. one of the reasons your car had more lag was more than likely due to the tuning. if you dont comp for it yes the car will make more lag. show me a dyno of both and you will see what i mean. pressure and volume are not the same.
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#8 Old 03-29-2005, 07:14 AM
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If you say so.

What do I know? I am only going from personal experience on several different cars....

Yes, you can tune for most anything you put on a car. But, that is only going to reinforce my statement. Adding a new intercooler alone won't add power. Tuning to take advantage of it will.

And, you mentioned a Viper. That engine has 10 cylinders, which produces much more exhaust gas flow and pressure than the 4 cylinders on a Subaru engine.

Last edited by Cosmo; 03-29-2005 at 07:59 AM.
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#9 Old 03-29-2005, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRX WRX
air is compressed not poured, once it makes atmospheric pressure (0 psi) it reacts the same no matter how long the piping is. what will happen is that your throttle response will suffer due to the length of the tubing but as soon as "0" is reached lag is gone.
Thats like saying it takes the same effort to blow up a balloon no matter how big it is, once you get started. Increasing pressure no matter if it is from vacume or from 1PSi is just adding more air.

More volume to fill with air = more air that is needed = more turns of the compressor wheel; not really any way around that.

I mean, really saying that FMIC and piping lag is a myth is just plain silly.
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#10 Old 03-29-2005, 11:39 AM
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I'm with Cosmo, if you get a bigger intercooler on a stock turbo, even though it CAN hold a larger air volumn than the stock one, it won't gain any power. You need a larger turbo to fill that intercooler with enough air to push through to the engine. For example, if the turbo pumps 300cfm, then a larger intercooler isn't going to change that. You just took away a small intercooler cooling 300 cfm of air, and replaced it with a larger intercooler cooling 300cfm of air. 1000cfm is what the intercooler is capable of cooling up to.
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#11 Old 03-29-2005, 12:20 PM
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what about the pressure drop differences? wouldn't a TMIC that has a ~0.2psi drop be better than ~3.0psi drop? to achieve the same boost levels (in the manifold), wouldn't the freer flowing TMIC let the turbo reach target boost easier? the reduction of pressure drop also allows you to run more boost since the turbo doesn't have to work harder.

Edit: you won't see any increase w/o tuning
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#12 Old 03-30-2005, 06:56 AM
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True, but like I said, the turbo isn't going to put out more than what it is able to put out. No matter the size of the intercooler. It may reach boost faster, but it's not going to push more air than what the ecu tells the celenoid to allow the turbo to do. The turbo will spool faster or slower depending on what the air density is in your area, but the turbo is electroncally controlled.
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#13 Old 03-30-2005, 07:28 AM
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yes, boost will not change because it's controlled by the boost controller.

my point was that say the target is 15psi (at the manifold). i've "read" that the stock TMIC has ~2-3psi pressure drop, so it would take ~17-18psi at the inlet of the TMIC to get 15psi in the manifold. to do this the turbo has to work a little harder.

now with a freer flowing TMIC, say the drop is 0.3psi, it would only take 15.3psi worth of effort from the turbo.

so with the proper tune, you could run higher boost with the TMIC w/o working the turbo harder than stock.
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#14 Old 03-30-2005, 07:39 AM
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The thing people keep saying is "with the proper tune". Nobody is denying that. But, the intercooler itself won't change anything.
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#15 Old 03-30-2005, 07:45 AM
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right...no gains, but cooler air















unless you get proper tuning
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