Power Stage 2-what should I expect? - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 09-12-2005, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Power Stage 2-what should I expect?

If install a power stage 2 on an 04 rex, what should expect powerwise and 1/4 mile time? Doe any of you have any idea? Also, what about reliability...will this combo increase fatigue on my engine?

Would I have to have a laptop for the UTEC? Does it come with tunes, or would I be doing the tuning myself?

Thanks,

Sam
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post #2 of 19 Old 09-12-2005, 06:27 PM
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Generally most people take their cars to a local tuner w/ a dyno and get them professionally tuned. As far as realability, you shouldn't have any problems if you don't beat on the car all the time. Of course it is going to put more stress on your engine b/c you are increasing the power it is producing, but I think you have nothing to worry about. From what I've seen with Stage 2 power is right around 230-240whp which is about equal to 300crank hp. That should get you to the mid 13s if you can drive.
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post #3 of 19 Old 09-25-2005, 08:05 PM
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My own Question

Sorry to butt in on your thread but I to have a question regarding utec. Cosmo convinced me to buy one with his great input and now I want to know how much power will I gain. I am running Pde up pipe, Stromung down pipe, and cai. Thats it for now should have larger intercooler by the time I tune so how much whp can I expect to gain. and what level should I set utec at anyone?

Last edited by suddenthomas; 09-25-2005 at 10:49 PM.
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post #4 of 19 Old 09-26-2005, 04:15 PM
 
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With the base map, expect to lose power. With a good tune, and the TMIC your looking at +25-30 whp probably.
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post #5 of 19 Old 09-27-2005, 07:38 AM
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I don't quite agree. I think you'll gain about 15-20 horses, but just because of the down-pipe and utec but you still want to finish the exhaust. You don't need to change the intercooler if you are still running a stock turbo. The stock one gets the job done. You'll just be waisting alot of money. Finish the exhaust and take off the CAI. And you should get an even nicer gain in power.

Sig edited due to rules, sorry
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post #6 of 19 Old 09-27-2005, 03:58 PM
 
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He already has the 15-20 w/ the downpipe. When he adds the UTEC, the base map seems like a decrease in performance.
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post #7 of 19 Old 09-27-2005, 10:54 PM
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I forgot to mention that I have a 3" straight pipe exhaust with only one high flow cat that is a major mistake on my part sorry, besides with utec I thought I could program for cai and once I get a bigger turbo wont the cai come in handy with fmic
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post #8 of 19 Old 09-27-2005, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBAUCLAPlaya
He already has the 15-20 w/ the downpipe. When he adds the UTEC, the base map seems like a decrease in performance.
Although I was basing it on feeling, it did feel like it pulled less when the UTEC was on (base map - stg 2). I agree.

Jon
"We live for a good time, not a long time."
RIP Colin McRae
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post #9 of 19 Old 09-27-2005, 11:51 PM
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so what map do i go with a custom one made by world one performance my local wrx super tuner in seattle
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post #10 of 19 Old 09-28-2005, 08:48 AM
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Yes they will tune your car to acheive more power, among other things.
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post #11 of 19 Old 09-28-2005, 08:55 AM
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don't shoot for #'s
on our local Mustang Dyno, you probably won't break 200whp. here's what a local WRX did

Baseline was 170 hp and 177 ft-lbs with the mods below. Ended up at 194 hp and 185.2 with the mods + ECUTek

here are his mods:
PDE uppipe and downpipe,HKS Hi Per exhaust,ported and polished STi throttlebody,HyperFlow TMIC,Perrin crank pulley,STi coil packs, Iridium plugs,Apex i intake

Last edited by Quack; 09-28-2005 at 09:09 AM.
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post #12 of 19 Old 09-28-2005, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack
don't shoot for #'s
on our local Mustang Dyno, you probably won't break 200whp. here's what a local WRX did

Baseline was 170 hp and 177 ft-lbs with the mods below. Ended up at 194 hp and 185.2 with the mods + ECUTek

here are his mods:
PDE uppipe and downpipe,HKS Hi Per exhaust,ported and polished STi throttlebody,HyperFlow TMIC,Perrin crank pulley,STi coil packs, Iridium plugs,Apex i intake
Do I understand you correctly? Before the ECUTek, but with those mods, he only had 170 hp? How old was the car/engine? Assuming the car/engine was in decent shape, that would mean he only picked up 5-10 whp over bone stock with the up/dp and all those other mods.

Not questioning your numbers, but there's got to be more to the story with that example.
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post #13 of 19 Old 09-28-2005, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Do I understand you correctly? Before the ECUTek, but with those mods, he only had 170 hp? How old was the car/engine? Assuming the car/engine was in decent shape, that would mean he only picked up 5-10 whp over bone stock with the up/dp and all those other mods.

Not questioning your numbers, but there's got to be more to the story with that example.

correct. 170whp with the mods installed, but w/o the ECUTek.

edit: we don't know what a bone stock WRX will do on this dyno yet

most bolt on modded Evo's (even with Alky) put down ~250 on this dyno.
a STi w/ 20g put down 315whp but the TopSpeed TS400 kit would put down 400whp on a dynojet.

my 18g wagon put down ~280 on this mustang.

a Stg2 LGT didn't even break 200whp on this mustang, and that setup should be ~250whp. this dyno is a heartbreaker.

if you want higher #'s got to the local Dynojet, where a stock WRX put down 190whp.

Last edited by Quack; 09-28-2005 at 10:09 AM.
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post #14 of 19 Old 09-28-2005, 07:29 PM
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That's good information to have.

So it's more to do with the dynos than the car? I don't know much at all about dyno types but (actual) brake/wheel horsepower is what it is. Why is there so much variation between the types of dynos?
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post #15 of 19 Old 09-28-2005, 08:41 PM
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it depends on how they place a load on the vehicle. it also depends on how they have the dyno setup/calibrated

typically the Dyno Dynamics and Mustang read lower. the Dynojet & DynaPack usually read higher.

here's some info from a local club member & Mustang dyno sales engineer:

The reason a Mustang and a Dynojet read differently is because they are two totally different types of dynos. The Mustang is a loading dyno and the Dynojet is an inertia dyno.

What is an inertia dyno you ask? Basically, you have the rollers which have a calculated weight called the inertia weight of
the dyno. This is a fixed value from the manufacturer. You speed the car up on the dyno, get it into 4th or 5th gear based on what is your one to one gear ratio. Then you do your power pull. It measures acceleration rates, time it takes to do the test, distance traveled during the test, inertia weight, etc. From these known values, it's plugged into the equation of HP=(mass)*(acceleration)*(distance traveled/time of test). From HP, torque can be equated using RPM from the vehicle. TQ=HP*5252/RPM. This is technically the backwards way to do it because HP is a theoretical number. Whereas Torque is a real/measureable number. A power pull is the only test you can do with an inertia style dyno. For the normal dyno owner, tuning is difficult to do with an inertia style dyno b/c the load applied to the vehicle is not real world loading. It is only the fixed weight of the roller's inertia (~2500-2900 pounds). This is much lower than the weight of most cars out there. Therefore you are tuning you car to run on the dyno and not run on the street. It is especially hard to tune EFI cars b/c their fuel map is a matrix of Load vs. RPM. So all your tuning on the dyno may be in the 50% load column, but when you go out on the street, you are pushing around more weight and now you are in the 70% load column - the column you couldn't tune on the dyno. Another problem that customers like us have is the ability to make full boost on the dyno. Again, this relates back to the not enough load created by the dyno. Turbo spool up is the effect of load on the motor. If there isn't enough load, you aren't going to spool up the turbo - kinda like revving the motor in neutral, you get some boost, but not as much as you would with load on the motor.

How does a Mustang apply a load on to your vehicle? Mustang couples a Eddy Current Power Absorber Unit (PAU) to the rollers of dyno. A PAU is basically a large magnetic frictionless brake also known as an electromagnetic brake. There are large
magnets in the center and large cast iron rotors on the outside. These rotors spin with the dynos rollers. As current is applied to the magnets, they try to "grab" the rotors and stop them. This is what applies the load to the vehicle. One PAU has the ability to make a 1000HP car under full throttle come to a complete stop. Attached to the PAU is a load cell (strain gauge). As you accelerate, the PAU will apply a load to the load cell because the PAU will try to spin with the rollers b/c of the friction
between the rotors and magnets. You also have the distance from the center of the PAU to the strain gauge. From these two measurements, you get torque. Torque=Force*Distance. Then from torque you get HP. HP=TQ*RPM/5252. The PAU
controls are extremely quick and accurate. The dyno can simulate the forces on any car going down the road using it's patented Road Load Simulation. That includes weight of the vehicle, wind friction, tire to road friction, etc. What your car sees on these dynos is exactly what it will see on the road. You can do a power pull, constant acceleration test, constant speed test, constant PAU force test, 0-60mph test, 0-100mph test, quarter mile sprint, 0-200 yard test and speedometer calibration test. EFI tuning is also extremely easy to do because you are in the proper load column during all of your vehicle simulation testing. You can also run the constant speed test which will allow you to tune every cell in the matrix one at a time.

The whole debate of which dyno is right is just opinion. Some people say Mustang is right, some say DynoJet is right, some say Dynapak is right, etc, etc, etc. Read the article in this link: http://www.mustangdyne.com/Articles...-article-01.htm Basically, Chevy High Performance did a Mustang vs. DynoJet vs. a 5th wheel dyno and the Mustang's HP curve was spot on with what the 5th wheel dyno's HP curve looked like.

As for who is better than who, that's every person's personal opinion and I'm not posting this to change that, just giving real information that isn't word of mouth.

Hopefully this was informative and you learned something. If you have any questions, let me know.

Thanks,
Tim
Sales Engineer
Mustang Dynamometer
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