Need feedback ASAP - Page 2 - Subaru WRX Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 56 Old 03-25-2009, 01:53 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
oldfartracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 344
oldfartracer is more helpful than not
Your "advisors" want you to send money, plain and simple.
With the mods you have listed you will need a Protune on the AP, an OTS map will not work.
If these guys that want you mod like this are also your tuners, find another tuner. These "advisors" are leading you down a bad path that will cost you more money in the long run.
You need a game plan, DD, track car, autoX or drag car. All will need a different setup to be the best it can. Throwing a bunch of mods at your car without a plan, is a waste of time and money.
oldfartracer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 56 Old 03-25-2009, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Mr. Happy is an unknown
Thanks OFracer.... like the name. OldFart was my Call of Duty handle.

Anyway, I told them my game plan up front: this is my day-to-day car, and I take it off road (and camping/fishing/hiking - I'm a geologist), and distance trips where I like to go fast in the boonies. Also like occassional spontaneous street drag if safe. And nobody likes turbo lag. So I guess my game plan is sort of a hybrid/sleeper. Or, like I said, this is the STI I can't afford.

Responses to questions:

The local shop encouraged SPT mods/upgrades to maximize odds of warranty being honored down the road. That's why the bias toward the STI/SPT turbo. Shop reccommended SPT and Cobb for the most part - nothing bad about those parts I could see so I went with their recommendations. Bought other parts from large online dealer and we discussed pros/cons of each part, compatibility; he took %age off online pricing, and threw in free plugs and shipping. Conversation did not feel like I was being pushed, but I question the BOV...

Since this situation came up so fast, and I generally don't tinker with cars, I was looking at this as a one-shot opportunity to upgrade. I like the idea of doing this in stages. On the other hand, the local "advisor" does not seem too concerned with the need for custom AP tuning.

Maybe I should return the BOV for injectors?

Regarding the clutch, I confirmed today it is not the ceramic assembly but the STI organic assembly, which is totally OK to use with my stock trannie. It's still reportedly a big improvement over stock clutch. I'll chat with them about doing this in stages because I do want to learn and not black box this whole thing.
Mr. Happy is offline  
post #18 of 56 Old 03-25-2009, 10:08 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
oldfartracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 344
oldfartracer is more helpful than not
You need a new advisor. They want you to install parts that Cobb doesn't have in the map notes. This will lead to problems.
This has been stated before, and you don't want to hear it.
So best of luck.
oldfartracer is offline  
post #19 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 02:51 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
Kjott21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 763
Kjott21 is known to be trustworthy and helpful Kjott21 is known to be trustworthy and helpful Kjott21 is known to be trustworthy and helpful
Garage
You can't effectively run an STi turbo on your car without bigger injectors. You will be limiting yourself a lot if you don't get bigger injectors.

You don't need a BOV unless your stocker leaks. Some leak over 18 PSI and some don't.

Unless you stick to the parts listed in the map notes for the Cobb maps you will NEED to have a custom tune. No if's and's or but's about it.

My name is Ken and I am a HP Junkie.
Kjott21 is offline  
post #20 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Mr. Happy is an unknown
Thank you. I hear you and I appreciate it.

I'm re-thinking all of this, and now find out that the Cobb SF intake and stage II are backordered; a TXS intake and an Invidea catted downpipe and cat-back have been suggested as replacements.

Words from one of my advisors:

"With the Cobb Stage 2 package, the stage 2 is for the parts, when you actually hook up your Cobb accessport, there will be different maps in there showing different modifications like; intake, header, exhaust, 93 octane fuel. Or Turboback only 93 octane etc etc.

With what your going to be running the Map after the Stage 2 on the Accessport will do you just fine. That map has been continuously used for up-pipe, intake, and turboback exhaust.

Your fuel pump will not change any of the parameters of your cars tune.
The fuel pump is an extra precaution because the ECU will be demanding more fuel and your stock fuel pump might not be able to keep up with the request from the ECU.

Even though the ECU will be flashed with the accessport, your ecu will still have its full ability to change correction factors for the Injectors, Mass Air Flow Sensor, and Knock sensor. These are the three keys to keeping your car running correctly. If the ECU notices too much boost, or too much fuel it will correct it by fluctuating the injector pulse and boost control solenoid to keep the Air fuels in check."

One implication is that the stock injectors can handle some amount of increase in flow from an upgraded fuel pump. Another implication is that the OTS maps plus the normal real-time adjustments by the ECU can handle the situation. Despite what he says, I do get that a custom map is likely needed.

Also going to talk with them today about doing this in stages as suggested. I have no other options for local advisor... am trying to balance all feedback here with that of current advisors.

I appreciate all the input and will keep you posted... sit back and watch me either inch forward in stages, or push it all on at once and have a trainwreck.
Mr. Happy is offline  
post #21 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 09:07 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
oldfartracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 344
oldfartracer is more helpful than not
oldfartracer is offline  
post #22 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 09:33 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
VD5505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 905
Images: 6
VD5505 is known to be trustworthy and helpful VD5505 is known to be trustworthy and helpful VD5505 is known to be trustworthy and helpful
Send a message via AIM to VD5505 Send a message via MSN to VD5505
Do you have any other places you can go and have your car tuned and or worked on that is close to your place?
VD5505 is offline  
post #23 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Mr. Happy is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfartracer View Post
Thank you - extremely helpful!
Mr. Happy is offline  
post #24 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 10:39 AM Thread Starter
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Mr. Happy is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by VD5505 View Post
Do you have any other places you can go and have your car tuned and or worked on that is close to your place?
Maybe - I would need to ask around... car is on rack at dealer waiting on new engine and upgrade parts.
Mr. Happy is offline  
post #25 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 10:32 PM
Moderator
 
newtothegame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,493
Images: 4
newtothegame is known to be trustworthy and helpful newtothegame is known to be trustworthy and helpful
Send a message via Yahoo to newtothegame
Where all have you looked for the Cobb SRI? There are several sites that do still have them in stock as I have been really kicking around the idea of getting one myself.

Joshua
"2007 WRX- PPG'd, 20G- Tim Bailey tuned
Stage 2 2005 WRX
Cobbtuning.com"
newtothegame is offline  
post #26 of 56 Old 03-26-2009, 11:12 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 309
c2bcoolwrx is more helpful than not
JSC Speed: Performance Parts Warehouse
Has the Cobb SRI in stock. I would also get the Cobb Air Box to go with it (helps lower the temps). However, as I stated earlier your stock intake really is not a limiting factor at your power levels.

Also, I would do your homework and find a better/more experienced tuner in your area. To bad your in North Fla b/c if you were down here in SFLA, I could send you to a badass shop with a very experienced engine builder/tuner that specializes in WRX/STi/Evo builds and tuning.

What part of North FLA are you in? B/c I used to live in Gainesville a few years back when I went to UF and depending where you are I may know someone who can help you out.
c2bcoolwrx is offline  
post #27 of 56 Old 03-27-2009, 08:34 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
oldfartracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 344
oldfartracer is more helpful than not
I am guessing here, but I bet his "advisors" is a dealership.
oldfartracer is offline  
post #28 of 56 Old 03-27-2009, 03:04 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
c2bcoolwrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 309
c2bcoolwrx is more helpful than not
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfartracer View Post
I am guessing here, but I bet his "advisors" is a dealership.
+1. I completely agree. The mechanics/techs at the delearship don't know ****. He needs to find an engine builder/tuner not some guy who does oil changes at the dealership.
c2bcoolwrx is offline  
post #29 of 56 Old 03-27-2009, 05:28 PM
WRXpert
 
dumdum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,800
Images: 12
dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention dumdum is a WRX tech God, pay attention
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Happy View Post

"With the Cobb Stage 2 package, the stage 2 is for the parts, when you actually hook up your Cobb accessport, there will be different maps in there showing different modifications like; intake, header, exhaust, 93 octane fuel. Or Turboback only 93 octane etc etc.

With what your going to be running the Map after the Stage 2 on the Accessport will do you just fine.
Stage 2 map is for a stock turbo only!Either you are very confused or they are.Are you going to use the stock turbo or upgrade to a bigger one....
pick one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Happy
If the ECU notices too much boost, or too much fuel it will correct it by fluctuating the injector pulse and boost control solenoid to keep the Air fuels in check."
The ECU can only correct fueling in closed loop where it uses the O2 sensor feedback.In Open loop/WOT the ECU does not have the ability to make immediate fuel corrections.Any professional tuner know this and this is why you pay for their services as they have tools like a wideband AFR sensor to read the fuel mixture at WOT.

Homebrewed tuned with Opensource!
dumdum is offline  
post #30 of 56 Old 03-28-2009, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Mr. Happy is an unknown
All - Here's where I am now (or what I've gotten myself into now!):

Local tuner advisor: ex-racer, 14 years exp., his first car he bought best parts available but had nightmare getting them to work together... learned his lesson. Taking alot of time answering my questions. He referred me directly to parts company so I could save on markup his local shop requires. Urged me to have detailed discussions with tech pros at parts company. I have done this several times.

Distant advisor 1: Very responsive and knowledgeable, 8 years experience and has seen all sorts of combinations work as long as tuning is good. Yes, he is also parts manager for reputable online supplier. He firmly stands behind the package he sold me and has seen it work.

Distant advisor 2: You folks - and I thank you again.

Me: quick study in technology; know that life with physics and computers (i.e., I use electron microprobe often) ranges from black and white to all shades of gray. Must set-up, test, calibrate, validate, monitor, maintain. Not much time to devote to this and need my car back! I'm the kind of guy who eats at "hole in the wall" restaruants when traveling... I avoid chain restaurants at all costs. I average food poisoning once every 16 months; however, I discover many outstanding local food dives during the year!!

Distant advisor 1 and local advisor rarely agree with absolutes offered by Distant advisor 2.

My 05 wrx is on rack waiting on warranty replacement engine and parts.

I have ordered the following parts, which is different from original list due to back-order items. I stayed with original parts dealer becuase he packaged purchase to cut my cost, added free shipping and free rush shipping for uppipe. Also his prices tend to be among the lowest online, at least for what I bought. He is Distant advisor 1.

PARTS

From Subaru SPT:
Organic STi clutch
STi turbo (not a huge jump over wrx stock but enough for me)

From parts Co.:
GrimmSpeed Up-pipe w/ Flex Section ceramic Coated
Cobb Accessport
Invidea catted downpipe
Invidea G200 catback system
TXS SF intake
Cobb Tuning Lightweight Main Pulley
HKS 71004-AF008 HKS SSQV BOV Kit (recirc)
TXS TMIC Kit
Walbro GSS342 Walbro 255 Fuel Pump and install kit
NGK BKR7E Heat range 7 Spark Plugs

Why fuel pump (from Unabomber): "Can I run an aftermarket fuel pump by itself without new injectors/turbo/management? During the turbo upgrade path, it may be easier to purchase and install a fuel pump ahead of time. It is cheap, easy to install, and removes an eventuality from the upgrade chain ahead of time. You can run an aftermarket fuel pump with no other modifications. Adding a fuel pump will not give you more fuel (i.e. richen your car), it simply allows for more fuel to be delivered if you run higher boost or larger injectors. The stock RRFPR keeps the pressure at the stock 43 psi + manifold pressure no matter how much fuel may be available from the pump."

Cobb AP may not work with TXS intake among other things: I have been told the combo works or else it would not have been sold to me. Despite the Cobb statement "For use with a VF30 turbo, STI (pink) injectors, stock intake or Cobb SF intake and a TURBOBACK exhaust system. Additional modifications such as uppipe and underdrive pulley are still within the acceptable parameters of this mapping. MUST USE FACTORY INTAKE OR COBB SF INTAKE SYSTEM ONLY. NO OTHER AFTERMARKET IN TAKES ARE CERTIFIED COMPATIBLE WITH THIS MAPPING. [doesn't mean they arent compatible] Uppipe is highly recommended when using any aftermarket turbochargers. If adding an upgraded intercooler, monitor boost and EGT levels for boost spiking or high temperatures."

As a start on tuning, Distant advisor 1 said "When the parts are installed load the map on the accessport right after the stage 2 map if there is any issues I will take care of it by getting you in contact with the many Subaru only shops in FL I sell wholesale to." I will also email my configuration to Cobb and request a custom map as a backup starting point.

Local advisor 1 says we will work though it. I need to confirm he has a wideband. He does not have dyno... which is obviously where I may end up with a protune.

I may be putting that BOV on ebay (or returning it) and going with pinks injectors... I may be making that trip to Gainesville or points south for a good tune. ONe thing I know for sure, I'll be using synthetic oil from now on.

So, I'll keep you posted with the good, bad and ugly. Sit back and enjoy the show. Hopefully I will not have a food poisoning experience!
Mr. Happy is offline  
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On