Judge my mod list :) - Subaru WRX Forum
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#1 Old 08-11-2009, 07:53 PM
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Judge my mod list :)

Hey everyone. I'm still kinda new and I don't post a whole lot; mainly read and gather info.
Anyway, I'm looking for some feedback about the direction I plan to take my '04 WRX. I have a beast already so I'm not really looking for insane power, just a bit more Here's what I'd like to achieve... ~250-275whp using the stock turbocharger + Meth.

Here's what the cars got now:

-Catless up pipe(w/headers), catless 3" DP and 3" back w/straight through muffler.
-Intake.

Here's the list:

-Larger TMIC
-GM or equivalent BCS
-Methanol kit(probably use the same Coolingmist kit I have on the SHO but with small dual nozzles).
-AFR/Boost gauges
-Pump gas tune and Meth tune via...(suggestions).

I'm posting to hopefully receive some insight and criticism. Any helpful suggestions are appreciated.

Nick. '90 Taurus SHO. Forged, Turbocharged, intercooled, meth, ~430whp. 12.93 @ 116 - FWD FTL.
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#2 Old 08-12-2009, 12:00 AM
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If your trying to be in that HP range you are better off with just a 16g turbo upgrade instead of meth injection kit, plus it will be safer.

Dont forget the fuel pump and the injectors.

rollin on 17's now and they're dirty
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#3 Old 08-12-2009, 01:37 AM
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I agree with the above mentioned. But you should also find a tuner that will do the tuning/work to your car and see what they also say.

Joshua
"2007 WRX- PPG'd, 20G- Tim Bailey tuned
Stage 2 2005 WRX
Cobbtuning.com"
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#4 Old 08-12-2009, 07:21 AM
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^Yeah, I think that will ultimately determine what happens. So the stock turbo is not quite up to the task? I thought I remembered reading that the stock turbo and fuel system was ok to around 325 crank... Fuel system upgrades are always a good foundation tho.

Nick. '90 Taurus SHO. Forged, Turbocharged, intercooled, meth, ~430whp. 12.93 @ 116 - FWD FTL.
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#5 Old 08-12-2009, 09:28 AM
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I am with Newtothegame, fine a tuner first. This will make your goal much easier to hit.
Also here is some good info List of Turbo Spool + Whp characteristics (averages) - NASIOC
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#6 Old 08-12-2009, 09:36 AM
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325 crank it might reach... That' still like 230-240whp. You can definitely get close to those numbers with meth and a stock turbo. The question is why are you going to meth before doing the turbo. It's kind of backwards.

04 STi 16G powered lagless fun
04 WRX: SOLD
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#7 Old 08-14-2009, 10:04 AM
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For that kind of power, I would upgrade the turbo and intercooler and skip the meth.
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#8 Old 08-14-2009, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahaSHO View Post
For that kind of power, I would upgrade the turbo and intercooler and skip the meth.
Are you guys serious? So you would say skip the $350 meth setup and go with a $800 dollar turbo and $1000 intercooler setup?

In either upgrade you need a tune, so we can skip weighing that in. But lets be realistic, he doesnt need a turbo upgrade to reach his power goals. He just needs a slightly more aggressive tune + some meth to cool things down and make it a tad safer. Plus he can save $1400. Meth doesnt make it LESS safe unless you are running on the ragid edge and depending too much on it, which for this level of power he should not be in that territory.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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#9 Old 08-14-2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04blusrt_4 View Post
Are you guys serious? So you would say skip the $350 meth setup and go with a $800 dollar turbo and $1000 intercooler setup?
Very serious. Meth/water injection is a band-aid and although they work well, when they fail or have any type of hiccup, you put your motor at risk. Both the original poster and I are running meth/wather injections kits on our SHO's. I've seen many broken pistons due to meth/water injection kits having issues. I am on my third pump (one failure being my fault) and I'd really hate to have a failure at 16 PSI and 8,000 RPM.

I would much rather have a more efficient turbo and larger intercooler for reliable power rather than a meth kit. IIRC, this is a daily driver, no need to mess with meth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04blusrt_4 View Post
In either upgrade you need a tune, so we can skip weighing that in. But lets be realistic, he doesnt need a turbo upgrade to reach his power goals. He just needs a slightly more aggressive tune + some meth to cool things down and make it a tad safer. Plus he can save $1400. Meth doesnt make it LESS safe unless you are running on the ragid edge and depending too much on it, which for this level of power he should not be in that territory.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.
After going these routes in the past, I guess I'd rather have peace of mind. Given the climate that he lives in, I'd much rather have something that always works and don't have to tinker with or fill. 115 ambient air isn't very forgiving when avoiding detonation.


This is just my opinion learned from my expriences. Knowing how spirited this driver is, I wouldn't want to completely chance it.
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#10 Old 08-14-2009, 12:51 PM
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This all depends on the fail safes that you use. If yours has a fail safe that kicks you map to a difeernt one, this would be fine. If you don't have this then you could have BIG problems if you run into flow problems. The best way to do this is with EM that handles the injection, Hydra with a Hydramist is the only one that comes to mind. Big bucks, but the fail safe is unbeatable.

Again find a tuner. As for EM Cobb AP is the easiest to but has limits, TurboXS Utec would be the next in line and can do more than the AP. Then you get into standalones, Hydra, AEM, Motec, ect. These will be the most costly to use because of the tuning needed and cost of the unit. A good tuner could help you pick what you need.
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#11 Old 08-14-2009, 01:00 PM
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Agree on most points, but my main point here is you can maximize any setup using a methanol kit. Stock, upgraded turbo, all can benefit from meth injection. I dont mean to advocate so much, but its hard to pass up the idea of 50whp more just by adding on a good kit and getting a retune. All the while keeping stock appearance and not having to get into any heavy lifting as far as mods go. A turbo and TMIC install is a far cry from laying some nylon lines and mounting a pump.

Cant stress failsafes enough, without them youre a moron and shouldnt be running alky injection.

I have run each seperately and now together (larger intercooler, larger turbo, and methanol). But at each step to my current setup, the meth was on and being used. People have this misconception that meth makes your setup more dangerous. To be fair, most people on here push their cars beyond what is safe to begin with, pushing the limits of pump gas. Adding a meth kit with a even mix of water and meth will keep those crazy guys safer. But you can go further than that and actually rely on the injection for power which puts you back into danger zone. But you have the control. Just have to keep your tank full, nozzles clean.
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#12 Old 08-14-2009, 02:32 PM
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Guess I'm a moron, 'cause I've been using meth/water for years with no failsafe other than a light for when the pump runs. I've seen pumps get stuck on due to a stuck solenoid and would really hate to hydro lock the motor. I have also beat the crap (track) out of a stock SHO (9.8:1 compression) motor at 460hp with a 91 Octane street tune and water injection for safety. I've kept my system running well, however, I do have that fear that just one little bug that could happen at any time coul cause the water to stop flowing (or I run out of water on long events).

Personally, I would rather slap on a VF39, FMIC (or STi TMIC), injectors/pump and tune, rather than wiring up a water/meth injection kit as well as a fail safe.

If you have a grasp on the TwEECer, the COBB APv2 will allow you to tune your car as well and you don't need a laptop like you do with your SHO. I currently have a COBB APv2 on my Suby and once I get bored of stage 2 (getting there), I'll start messing with the Race Tuner software for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04blusrt_4
But you can go further than that and actually rely on the injection for power which puts you back into danger zone.
You don't think 275whp out of the stock motor and hair drier isn't going to be relying on the meth injection?
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#13 Old 08-14-2009, 02:38 PM
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I agree meth is not bad, and can be good in most cases. But tring to double the WHP with just meth is not a good thing. I have seen some very good number with a stock turbo. I would spend my money a good P&P on the turbo and some fuel mods. This will net you a safer gain and a close to NA spool time.
At least add some fuel to go with the meth.

PS: Take a look at my mods, I put down about 280 to the wheels. My tune is open the upper side safe but has been that way for three years.
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#14 Old 08-14-2009, 04:14 PM
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NA spool time???
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#15 Old 08-14-2009, 08:33 PM
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No lag, my buddy did this on his autoX car. It is very quick off the line and hits full boost right now.
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