Subaru WRX Forum

Subaru WRX Forum (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/)
-   Bolt-On Tech (EJ205 2.0L '02-05 WRX) (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f52/)
-   -   E85? (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f52/e85-24230/)

1wrb02wrx 09-11-2008 09:38 PM

E85?
 
So I am thinking of getting tuned to E85 and was just wondering who is all running this and what are their setups? Also what are the advantages and disadvantages that youve seen?
Thanks

HUMANPIE 09-11-2008 11:06 PM

I was looking into this as well. I am no expert, but I can share what little I found out.

I do believe you will need to have a higher flowing fuel pump and larger injectors to run E85. You end up having to burn more fuel (MPG goes down 20to 30%) however the price per gallon is cheap enough that you still save money. This is assuming the price per gallon of E85 remains cheaper at a higher % versus gas, then the % decrease of fuel economy. I believe you see an increase in HP if properly tuned as well.

Other than the price of a new pump, injectors, and tune. I really don't see any con. Except maybe the limited availability of E85? And I'm not sure if any problems have come up with the E85 being more corrosive on the stock fuel lines and tank???

Hopefully that helps some and someone that has done this chimes in to shed further light on the subject.

turmic 09-12-2008 12:09 AM

There are a few guys on here that are running E85 hybrids. I think most of them are running a different turbo as well. I think you need a ton of more air; more so than more fuel to get the E85 to burn properly. But, I could be wrong. I just remeber watching a tv show and they had to put a huge carb on a motorcycle for it to burn E85 properly. Could be wrong. Hopefully one of those members will see this thread and shed the proper light on this.

1wrb02wrx 09-12-2008 08:16 PM

Yes I have heard that e85 is 105 octane and it burns cooler. You need a bigger fuel pump injectors and a fuel rail and a tune. I have also heard that it shortens the life of the injectors.

VanillaJuice 09-12-2008 08:21 PM

cameron over at camtuning.com is running his Blouch Dominator 4 turbo with the E85...on his 06 wagon...says he likes it so far...burns cooler and uses alot more fuel....he should be posting up new dyno numbers for it next week he says on his site

1wrb02wrx 09-22-2008 12:53 AM

What size and type of injector is the best to run with e85?

dumdum 09-22-2008 11:49 AM

[QUOTE=1wrb02wrx;205231]What size and type of injector is the best to run with e85?[/QUOTE]Depends on what turbo and you can only run the same type of injector(high impedence) so I'm not sure what you mean by that question.Do you mean brand?

BugEyedAWD 09-22-2008 11:53 AM

E85 is pointless. it would save you time and money to keep using standard fuel. If anything try to find a gas pump that doesnt use ethenol period. I only have 1 gas station in my town with 0% ethenol, and its a Sunoco.

1wrb02wrx 09-22-2008 03:10 PM

yeah I meant What brand when I said type. I have stock td04. And e85 is 105 oct so it has to be good for something:D

BugEyedAWD 09-22-2008 03:19 PM

^ its good for manipulating people into believing that E85 is going to get you better fuel economy. its the same as a hybrid car. Sure your going to save money on gas. but in 5 years when that IMA battery (Intigrated Motor Assist) goes out. your going to spend about $2000 dollars just to get it replaced. and NO. its not under warranty. basically making you either trade the car for a portion of what its worth. or you can spend the money you saved on gas in 5 years, on that new battery and drive it another 5 years. This is why i believe hybrids will be extinct in a matter of years as well as E85 earlier than the hybrids granted domestion dealers (such as Chevy/GM) actually succeed with their fuelflex vehicles.

I know you asked what "TYPE". but im saying any type is pointless. unless you really had your heart set on it. but im just sharing opinions on what i think is of worth and what is not. although my opinions are not worth even the price of a big mac IMO.

1wrb02wrx 09-22-2008 03:36 PM

nobody said youd get better fuel economy you run it for power, price,and a cooler running engine

BugEyedAWD 09-22-2008 04:13 PM

^ holy shit man...

go look up What the point of E85 was. It was not for performance. i can tell you that.... But if thats what you want to do... more power to you. Im just saying, dont convert your car over, because its one of those sources of fuel that will probably be short lived. THAT IS ALL IM SAYING. Because no one buys it for (performance) if anything ive heard of people losing power by using E85. Although i dont know enough about it to be %110 sure on that fact. that is why most people would prefer full fledged gasoline over ones with ethenol. (which brings the point that, e85 is made from denatured alcohol (ethenol) up to 70% - 85%. the rest is fuel.)



Now think. its going to burn a helluva lot faster. and a helluva lot cooler. and THIS i quote from wikipedia, because i care enough to produce a valid arguement on the question "Does e85 help your car in any way".

"One complication is that use of gasoline in an engine with a high enough compression ratio to use E85 efficiently would likely result in catastrophic failure due to engine detonation, as the octane rating of gasoline is not high enough to withstand the greater compression ratios in use in an engine specifically designed to run on E85. Use of E85 in an engine designed specifically for gasoline would result in a loss of the potential efficiency that it is possible to gain with this fuel. Using E85 in a gasoline engine has the drawback of achieving lower fuel economy as more fuel is needed per unit air (stoichiometric fuel ratio) to run the engine in comparison with gasoline.[B] E85 also has a lower heating value (units of energy per unit mass) than gasoline leading to a reduction in power output in a gasoline engine.[/B] ~ [I] Wikipedia.org Search:E85[/I]

therefore.... if this information is correct. its pointless to swap to e85. like i said in the beginning... you will only waste time and money, you will get neither, (power gains OR fuel economy.)

Once again i say, dont mean to sound like a prick. I just think there is no point in swapping to E85. but you're going to do what you're going to do. If im right, then im right hopefully we will all learn something and ill know for sure. If im wrong, then im wrong and ive definatly learned something today. but if there is any doubt in my information provided today, i basically challenge you to prove me wrong. because i dont want my information to be incorrect so i can better help others who have the same questions from day to day as far as my REAL LIFE job goes.

Burd@MAP 09-22-2008 04:58 PM

Ok we are getting kinda heated here...

Ethanol Fuel burns cooler, thus allowing us to run more boost and advance more timing to make more power. Also ethanol fuel is less likely to knock. This is why we run this in every vehicle we own, ranging from a 2006 Trailblazer SS(stock fuel pump and injectors) to a 800 AWHP 1G DSM(obviously not stock).

It is impossible to decipher what the exact octane rating is because of the cooling properties but it is similar to a 105-106 octane (but with better cooling).

You will lose MPG but it is less expensive....so basically its a wash, and you can make more power(on my stock Trailblazer SS with an LS2 I made 47whp and 48ftlbs).

turmic 09-22-2008 05:19 PM

I don't think anyone is running E85 for fuel economy. Its actually 85% ethonal and 15% gas. So, it burns cleaner and doesn't bulch out carbon deposits like normal gasoline does. Thus polluting the earth less. It's been known to be a cheaper fuel and it does get consumed faster. Now, all of that being said. Most times someone is using E85 and the engine is setup for it. You can get more performance out of burning that higher octane then gasoline. Which is the whole point to why people switch over to race gas after they've maxed the gains out of the engine. The higher octane will let you knock out some more ponies. Granted I'm no expert on it. But to say that it's a POS fuel and all it will do is give you less performance and economy is untrue. It's all in how its intergated into the car and the tune/work done to it. If you think i'm blowing smoke. Take a look at the flex fuel cars and trucks on this link. (Source: [url=http://www.chevrolet.com/biofuels/]Chevrolet | Chevy Alternative Fuel Vehicles - E85 Ethanol[/url]) They even state that the higher octane level results in slightly higher horsepower and torque level. Granted I was hoping to find they're projected horsepower. But, can't seem to find a good link on if there is any hp difference. Here's a good link to how much worse the mpg is on a 2008 impala with e85 vs gasoline. [url=http://www.chevrolet.com/impala/index.jsp?evar10=E85_ETHANOL_PROMOTILE_2008_IMPALA]Chevrolet | 2008 Impala Sedan Models LS, LT, LTZ, and Impala SS[/url] Not trying to argue...just trying to make sure the right opinions are being formed here. Well, I can't find any HP differences on those cars. But, that is what the aftermarket/tuner world is for. I'm sure it's a ton easier to get hp out of a higher octance then a lower octane.

BugEyedAWD 09-22-2008 05:23 PM

ok... im seeing where you guys are saying it has the potential for more power. my sources show that with ethenol since it burns cooler you get less out of the motor. but you guys are saying, because it burns cooler you get more power. Which is it? I can see them working both ways. because both statements make sense to me.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8pl1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome