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-   -   air to water intercooler? (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f52/air-water-intercooler-9568/)

Fourdoor 11-03-2005 08:14 PM

air to water intercooler?
 
If there was ever a car set up perfect for an air to water intercooler setup it would be the WRX. You can put the intercooler itself as a direct replacement for the stock TMIC, and put the heat exchanger in front of the radiator where it gets great airflow.

Has anyone done this and I just missed it in my search?

Keith

stileguy 11-03-2005 10:04 PM

yeah, subaru did it from 1989-1994, its called a legacy rs turbo

awd>fwd 11-03-2005 10:11 PM

Are you asking if anyone has done a front mount intercooler?

imbeterthanu 11-03-2005 10:35 PM

[QUOTE=awd>fwd]Are you asking if anyone has done a front mount intercooler?[/QUOTE]

hes talking about a radiator type set-up.

Fourdoor 11-04-2005 07:05 AM

[QUOTE=stileguy]yeah, subaru did it from 1989-1994, its called a legacy rs turbo[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that heads up. Why did they go to an air to air TMIC? Less expensive, or were there problems with the air to water setup?

Keith

Cosmo 11-04-2005 10:47 AM

[QUOTE=Fourdoor]Thanks for that heads up. Why did they go to an air to air TMIC? Less expensive, or were there problems with the air to water setup?

Keith[/QUOTE]

Both probably. Plus, those factory air-water intercoolers weren't very efficient. I do know a couple people running air-water intercoolers in their street cars with no problems. Neither are on a Subaru though.

But, if you do it right, it should be fine.

Vew 11-04-2005 01:26 PM

Weight was also a factor. The reason Subaru stuck with air to air TMIC is because air to air with a water sprayer was just as effecient as the water to air, and lighter. I have a writeup somewhere in my room about it.

Fourdoor 11-04-2005 01:38 PM

[QUOTE=Vew]Weight was also a factor. The reason Subaru stuck with air to air TMIC is because air to air with a water sprayer was just as effecient as the water to air, and lighter. I have a writeup somewhere in my room about it.[/QUOTE]

If I did a setup like this it would probably have more expensive heat exchangers than a factory setup, probably around the efficiency of a good FMIC setup during normal street use. Also I would have a surge where I could drain the system and re-fill it with Ice and water for track use.

I am not doing this any time soon, just looking at possibilities for the future.

Keith

Fourdoor 11-04-2005 01:40 PM

[QUOTE=stileguy]yeah, subaru did it from 1989-1994, its called a legacy rs turbo[/QUOTE]

Did some google searches and the only thing I found was the twin turbo lagacy's. Do you have any links that show how the air to water IC was set up on them?

Thanks,

Keith

stileguy 11-05-2005 02:21 AM

The heat exchanger was placed in an identical fashion to the wrx top mount, same turbo to intercooler piping and intercooler to intake pipe setup. the heat exchanger has a radiator cap on it to add your liquid (demineralised water and water wetter works best). this liquid is piped to a pump in the front left fender then to a front radiator where it is sent back to the heat exchanger, the pump was controlled by a relay on the left strut tower. it had 2 speeds, low speed at light throttle to ensure liquid spent as long as possible in the front radiator and high speed to get the liquid out of the heat exchanger under full throttle, MRT did an upgrde to the size of the front radiator which gave 40% more cooling and worked better at removing heat from the intake than most top mount intercoolers but did not flow enough air.
in the late 90s guys here in oz enclosed the stock top mount intercooler in aluminium plate and made it into a water air setup with great results but nothing compares in terms of heat dissipation and airflow volume to a quality 3' thick front mount. with the cost of intercoolers being so low it is a waste of money to go to the trouble to spend more money and more complex setup just to save 200rpm in lag. there is a reason why nearly all fast subarus have front mounts. it has been proven again and again, if you keep your pipe sizes sensible and dont go overboard with core size a fmic is hard to beat. you do not need 3' pipes and a 600x300x90mm core until you start looking above 600hp.

Fourdoor 11-05-2005 07:05 AM

[QUOTE=stileguy]The heat exchanger was placed in an identical fashion to the wrx top mount, same turbo to intercooler piping and intercooler to intake pipe setup. the heat exchanger has a radiator cap on it to add your liquid (demineralised water and water wetter works best). this liquid is piped to a pump in the front left fender then to a front radiator where it is sent back to the heat exchanger, the pump was controlled by a relay on the left strut tower. it had 2 speeds, low speed at light throttle to ensure liquid spent as long as possible in the front radiator and high speed to get the liquid out of the heat exchanger under full throttle, MRT did an upgrde to the size of the front radiator which gave 40% more cooling and worked better at removing heat from the intake than most top mount intercoolers but did not flow enough air.
in the late 90s guys here in oz enclosed the stock top mount intercooler in aluminium plate and made it into a water air setup with great results but nothing compares in terms of heat dissipation and airflow volume to a quality 3' thick front mount. with the cost of intercoolers being so low it is a waste of money to go to the trouble to spend more money and more complex setup just to save 200rpm in lag. there is a reason why nearly all fast subarus have front mounts. it has been proven again and again, if you keep your pipe sizes sensible and dont go overboard with core size a fmic is hard to beat. you do not need 3' pipes and a 600x300x90mm core until you start looking above 600hp.[/QUOTE]


Great explanation! Thanks !Thumbs Up I didn't realize the difference in lag was so small or I would not of even brought up the subject.

I have seen poeple explain the reason the stock TMIC has two inlets to be because it distributes air flow better. My view is that it was set up for the twin turbo subaru's (one turbo's outlet going to each TMIC inlet) and they just used the same TMIC on the single turbo cars to save money. Is my speculation correct?

Keith

stileguy 11-05-2005 05:28 PM

subaru australia never imported the twin turbo legacy to oz and much better results are achieved from doing conversions with the cheaper single turbo setups (wrx, legacy rs) the biggest problems is with the sequential operation and getting the transition seemless, most people hunting for more than 320hp just installed the manifolds from the single turbo cars. i have never really looked at the plumbing on a GT so i dont really know. in NZ there have been reports of GTs grossly overboosting when high flow exhausts are installed and resulting in engine destruction as the backpressure in the exhaust seems to aid the transition of the turbos. They start off low in the revs with only 1 little IHI RHB4 turbo spooling at 2300 and the second RHB4 opening (via exhaust manifold flapper) at approx 3500-4000, the exhaust manifolds are merged into one before the turbos. if they were simultaneous setup a swap to a pair of TD04Ls would be a sweet setup but subaru wanted strong torque from just off idle to redline so they went for sequential.

smores 11-05-2005 10:57 PM

is it just me, or am I the only one who reveres stileguy as one of the greatest Subaru knowledge gurus ever? !Thumbs Up

So glad to have this guy around.

imbeterthanu 11-06-2005 01:35 AM

[QUOTE=smores]is it just me, or am I the only one who reveres stileguy as one of the greatest Subaru knowledge gurus ever? !Thumbs Up

So glad to have this guy around.[/QUOTE]


yeah, he most deff. know his stuff.

stileguy 11-06-2005 03:01 AM

you guys make me so happy, i think i'll cry.!Cry!
only to happy to help, hope i dont stand on any of the other gurus toes.:sneaky:


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