First Stick Car - Page 3 - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 01:37 AM Thread Starter
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Okay I will try giving it some more throttle.

On the other topic of going from STOP to FIRST to SECOND.
Let's say the friction point of the clutch is the 1/2 way mark for this purpose.
I would depress the clutch fully then put it into 1ST GEAR then as I pass the friction point I would give it some gas as I reach about the 3/4 mark on the clutch. From there I would depress the clutch fully again then put it into 2ND GEAR then release the clutch slowly yet again.
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post #32 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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On the double clutch method how should the braking go? If anyone would care to explain it indepth with the clutch/braking/blipping would help a lot. Thanks in advance yet again, you guys have helped me learn a lot so far. As soon as I master the manual shift then I can learn the insides of the car and the works which I can't wait for.
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post #33 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 09:15 AM
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If you're getting to the appropriate shifting point (3k RPM for normal driving) with the clutch not completely out you're giving it too much gas, which isn't horrible every once and a while, you're spinning the clutch, read howstuffworks.com they explain how the whole thing works. Clutch is basically brake pad, the more you spin it the sooner it will die. The WRX flys through 1st gear, you should have to switch out if it very soon. downshifting in the other gears it sounds like you're downshifting at the wrong RPMS, the general rule is that if you feel like you hit a wall when you shift its cause you didnt give enough gas, and if you feel like you suddenly jump forward, its too much gas. normal shifting is usually between 2k and 3k except for 5th gear. You need to just get the feel of approx what rpm each gear woudl be going at a certain gear but generally if you follow a straight line of decellerating, downshift right under 2k rpm (maybe 1750) the idea is right before you feel the car start sputtering. and then rev match to about 2750 which will be what the lower gear would be spinning the motor at that speed. Just understand that the gear ratios overlap, 25MPH is like 2k in 3rd whiles its 3k in 2nd
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post #34 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 06:07 PM
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^^ I disagree with him..

It doesnt sound like your going to fast. It seems your letting the clutch out way too slow. Once you start going forward, take your foot off the clutch.

As far as downshifting.... When you are slowing down you dont need to worry about one pedal, the gas. So both feet are operating the clutch and brake respectivly. It sounds to me like after you are downshifting, you are just letting the clutch out WAY to fast. Try just slowly letting the clutch out after you downshift, if anything, your car should feel like its being held back by something. It shouldnt jump forward or buck.
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post #35 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXforME
^^ I disagree with him..

It doesnt sound like your going to fast. It seems your letting the clutch out way too slow. Once you start going forward, take your foot off the clutch.

As far as downshifting.... When you are slowing down you dont need to worry about one pedal, the gas. So both feet are operating the clutch and brake respectivly. It sounds to me like after you are downshifting, you are just letting the clutch out WAY to fast. Try just slowly letting the clutch out after you downshift, if anything, your car should feel like its being held back by something. It shouldnt jump forward or buck.
Okay will try letting out the clutch slower on the downshift but on the 1st to 2nd I am letting the clutch out slow to not have the car lurch while in transition.
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post #36 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXforME
^^ I disagree with him..

It doesnt sound like your going to fast. It seems your letting the clutch out way too slow. Once you start going forward, take your foot off the clutch.

As far as downshifting.... When you are slowing down you dont need to worry about one pedal, the gas. So both feet are operating the clutch and brake respectivly. It sounds to me like after you are downshifting, you are just letting the clutch out WAY to fast. Try just slowly letting the clutch out after you downshift, if anything, your car should feel like its being held back by something. It shouldnt jump forward or buck.
If you forget about the throttle, then you have no way of matching the revs/engine speed to your vehicle's speed. There's nothing wrong with using the engine as a brake; in fact, most any driving school teaches that as part of heel-toe shifting. But if you let the engine settle back to idle and then let the clutch out slowly in the lower gear, you could be wearing your clutch if the revs aren't somewhat matched. If you let the clutch out fast, without matching the revs on downshifts, you could be introducing a shock to your drivetrain - think of it as the opposite of launching your car. To avoid blipping the throttle and still have a smooth downshift, you'd need to be going no faster than what the lower gear would be turning at roughly 1000 rpm's of engine speed, or where ever your car tends to idle - so you're still matching revs.
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post #37 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 08:55 PM
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Junki, once the car is moving from a stop, you can let go of the clutch pretty quickly. The clutch should be all the way out by the time you shift to second.

Try this:

Take off normally, and dont shift to 2nd until you get to 3000 rpms. If you still have the clutch depressed at all, then you are taking your foot off way to slow. My foot is off the clutch and resting on the left side before I even shift to second....

Eh.. you'll get better and figure out ways to drive on your own. You're still pretty new at it.
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post #38 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 11:00 PM
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I've learned that letting off the clutch too slow will give you a falsley smooth shift cause you never fully get in gear and that's when your car normally kicks a little if you shift poorly. He's letting off the clutch too slowly, but he's also giving it too much gas if it's gettign to 3k rpm. He's not shifting at the proper speed essentially. Do you rev your car before you start releasing the clutch?
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post #39 of 56 Old 10-30-2005, 11:55 PM
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No, I dont rev before I release.

Its so hard to explain this to someone new to a standard without being in the car with them, so I give up

You will learn by trial and error the right and wrong way of doing things, just hopefully you dont accidently abuse your car too much. Drive with someone in the passanger seat that knows how to drive standard, they can teach you better than I can over the net.
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post #40 of 56 Old 10-31-2005, 12:09 AM
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/\ I agree with him, get someone to sit in your passenger seat and give you pointers it helps out a lot. Make sure that they have been driving a stick for a while and know what they are doing.

Brent
2007 Satin White STi, 1989 Nissan Sil-Coupe, 1998 Toyota 4runner (to be built..)...
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post #41 of 56 Old 10-31-2005, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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Okay. So one last thing is revving with the clutch depressed fully bad for the car?
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post #42 of 56 Old 10-31-2005, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_JUNKI
Okay. So one last thing is revving with the clutch depressed fully bad for the car?
It's the same as revving with the car in neutral. I wouldn't do it just to do it, but unless you're taking it to high rpm's just for shiites & giggles, you're just spinning the engine.

I think someone posted a link to How Stuff Works. Check that out: clutches and transmissions. It'll help. And the idea about having an experienced stick driver ride with you is a great idea. The more you try it the better you'll get. And you'll be SO happy that you bought a manual. Then you'll be ready for a racing school.
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post #43 of 56 Old 10-31-2005, 01:21 PM
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Ok, ill be honest, im not 100% sure what the hell you guys are doing. Hehe, but all that aside, I will do my best to help out.

Basic shifting:
If you are doing single clutch, no blip downshifts, you WILL need to ease the clutch out. The clutches purpose in life is to absorb the energy created by making tranny parts A rotate at the same speed at tranny parts B. if one set is going faster then the other, then it needs to be slowed down, and that creates energy, or heat in this case, which is absorbed by the clutch.

Double clutch downshifting and other assorted advanced techniques:
Oki doki, if you feel confident enough to do the double clutch downshifts then you are ultimately aiming for the ability to engaged and disengaged the clutch immediately.

Double clutch downshift recap;

If you are driving in third gear, and you are coming to a turn that will require you to slow down, and select a lower gear, then you would want to follow the following; while driving in third start to slow down at the appropriate time, the amount the transmission should be slowing the car should be MINIMAL, let the brakes do there job. As you are braking with your right foot, you want enough of the right side of you foot hanging off the brake peddle, so that you can get to the gas peddle while braking by pivoting your foot. As you brake, you engage the clutch to get the gear lever of third, and into neutral. Once you are in neutral, you release the clutch and blip the throttle. The tricky part is maintaining constant brake pressure while you are blipping the throttle. As soon as you brake, you donít want to ever go back to the brakes for this turn, you brake once and only once. After you have given the throttle a good blip, you depress the clutch again and select second gear, if you have done this in an appropriate amount of time, everything in the transmission will be rotating at the same speed, and therefore the clutch will not need to do anything, and you should be able to release the clutch immediately, and have no jerks, the clutch should not create friction against anything.

Possible incorrect outcomes;

When you release the clutch it feels like your hammering on the brake;
If this is happening, then you arenít blipping high enough. What is basically happening is the parts in the tranny are moving at a very different speed, and all the force that the clutch would be taking care of is instead transferred directly to your tranny components, and they are slowing them selves down. Very bad.

When you release the clutch it feels like the car is lurching forward, or is not under power;
This usually means you are blipping too high. The gear you are about to enter is spinning faster then it should for the speed the vehicle is currently traveling. This isnít that big of a deal, and is much better scenario then a blip that is too small.


did that clear it up?
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post #44 of 56 Old 10-31-2005, 03:01 PM
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Lol, sorry i guess i should have specified who i was talking to, I was asking WRX_Junki if he revs before he starts relasing the clutch. sorry about that.

(edit)

That's some crazy double clutch, heel- toe you just described right there. do you do this often?
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post #45 of 56 Old 10-31-2005, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone willing to explain the BASIC DOWNSHIFT where I am rev matching while downshifting. In detail if possible. Found some Subaru owners out here on the island so I will have them help me so until then whatever you guys can write up for me will be good. THanks in advance.
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