Whole bunch of wheel/tire/suspension questions - Subaru WRX Forum
 
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#1 Old 03-10-2011, 10:49 AM
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Whole bunch of wheel/tire/suspension questions

Hoping I can get everything answered all at once. I just purchased a set of 17x9 +42 Rota DPT wheels with 245/40/17 Dunlop Direzza Star Specs which will hopefully arrive on Monday. My suspension is currently stock, except for aftermarket sway bars and endlinks.

1. I'm already assuming I'll have to get my rear fenders rolled to avoid rubbing. Should I have the fronts done at the same time just to be safe? If I eventually lower the car with springs/struts and/or upgrade to 255/40/17 tires with the same wheels, would a front/rear roll be enough to avoid rubbing or should I consider a pull too?

2. I'm looking at IAG Performance to do the fender work - anybody have any experience with them? Should I consider another shop in the MD area?

3. At what temperature should I switch from winter tires to summer tires? Lately, night time temps have been consistently in the 30's in my area. Should I wait until they're in the 40's? 50's?

I've been looking at this package from TIC: Turn in Concepts. I already have my heart set on RCE Yellow springs and Tokico D-Spec struts, but the other options are a bit confusing to me. I like that combo for my daily driver because it will hopefully get rid of a good amount of wheel gap while maintaining a reasonable amount of ride comfort and performance, but what other parts would I need?

- GTworx GD Front Camber Plates w/ Deep Nut ( + $250.00 )

- Whiteline Com C's ( + $60.00 )

- Remove Tokico Rear Adjustment Extenders ( - $25.00 )

- Camber Bolts (1 Pair) ( + $40.00 )

- Camber Bolts (2 Pair) ( + $70.00 )

- .25" Saggy butt shims ( + $25.00 )

- .375" Saggy butt shims ( + $25.00 )

I like that this is a pre-built kit and I think it would be a relatively simple install since I'm a first-timer. Obviously, I'd take it in for a good performance alignment (possibly again at IAG) after I install it, but I have some more questions:

4. How long after installing the kit should I wait for everything to settle before I get an alignment?

5. What specific alignment specs should I ask for?

I already have a rough idea about all this stuff, but I'm just looking to arm myself with some specific info so I don't go into the shop looking like an idiot. I'm pretty excited about this stuff

John
07 WRX (Albins 5MT + Blouch 20G)
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#2 Old 03-10-2011, 03:09 PM
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1) rears will need a roll due to the offset. 245/40R17 would work on stock fenders if you stayed with 17x8" +48 wheels but 17x9" +42 wheels are about 3/4" further out and will be under your rear fenders. If you want to go to 255 later, you'll need to PULL the rears in addition to the roll and probably roll the fronts as well. The DPT's do not have enough offset to maximize tire width. More offset would allow more tire with less fender work. They do make wheels in 17x8.5" +48 which allow for 245 and 255 at a more reasonable offset

3) Use summers when it's over 40, use winters when it's below 40. Your call on what percentage of the day you will be driving on which side of the line that will be and also if the weather will swing. In general, err on the side of winters. They can deal with up to 55 or 60 fairly well. Summers will not work properly at the freezing point.

The TiC stuff is good, they know what they're doing.

4) A few blocks would do. Get the alignment ASAP

5) You want something like -1.5 camber all around (you probably won't get that out of the stuff you've listed but maybe. I usually ask for "all of it") with zero toe.

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#3 Old 03-10-2011, 10:48 PM
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Excellent.

1. Pretty much what I expected. I was under the impression there were different levels of rolling - anywhere from just enough to completely flat. If I tell the shop my future plans, maybe I can get them to roll the fenders completely flat so I won't have to worry about additional fender work if I upgrade to 255s in the future. I guess it's really trial and error and I'll have to dial in the setup as I go.

2. Need more info.

3. Pretty satisfied with this answer.

3.5. Need more info.

4. I was under the impression that it takes suspension components a longer period of time to settle, so I was thinking it would be several weeks to a month or so before everything fully settled. What's the harm in letting it go a little longer than a few blocks before I get everything aligned - some premature tire wear? Honestly, I plan on the alignment being a one-time thing and I'd like to get the most out of it, even if that means sacrificing some tread on this set of 245s. I'd ultimately like to get 255s under there in a year or two - these tires are somewhat of a trial set.

5. Pretty satisfied with this answer too. Anything I should add or delete from the list in order to get the most from my alignment?

John
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#4 Old 03-11-2011, 12:39 AM
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2) Shops don't like rolling fenders. The risk of paint damage is extreme and it can be costly to replace. Left unnoticed, it can lead to rusting as well. If you want to fit 255's at +42, you will need to stretch your fender out, not just roll the edge. This will almost always crack your paint sooner or later.

4) There's nothing to settle, I don't follow what you think will be happening. There's no break-in period for suspension components. The problems of a bad alignment you seem to know but when you replace the struts, you won't have a bad alignment, you'll have NO alignment. That's a whole lot worse. You can destroy tires quickly and cause wheel bearing damage as well as completely destroy your car's handling. A good alignment is important. Don't think of it as a one time thing. It's more like a fluid change, just something you have to do from time to time.

5) If you want more negative camber, you're going to need camber bolts and top hats. There's limits to what longer bolts can do, but they're generally in the neighborhood of -2 degrees. Some people push it further than that. I would if I tracked the car, there's no point on a street car. To go further, you need coilovers really, though there are some methods of doing a little more.

EDIT: I see you already have top hats and bolts on your list there. You can get -2 around if you want probably. You might not want that much in the rear, your call. Disregard my "all of it" comment, that would be quite a lot with those parts.

The Dspec struts are great, and TiC sells several springs that are good for more than just stupid drops with crap springrates.

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#5 Old 03-11-2011, 08:56 PM
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I always thought that after installing a set of springs, it would take a short period of time for them to settle - meaning the car would sit a fraction of an inch lower after several days or weeks than it would immediately after you install them. I suppose in reality, that fraction of an inch wouldn't affect an alignment very much at all.

Still looking for info regarding this specific equipment:

- GTworx GD Front Camber Plates w/ Deep Nut ( + $250.00 )

- Whiteline Com C's ( + $60.00 )

- Remove Tokico Rear Adjustment Extenders ( - $25.00 )

- Camber Bolts (1 Pair) ( + $40.00 )

- Camber Bolts (2 Pair) ( + $70.00 )

- .25" Saggy butt shims ( + $25.00 )

- .375" Saggy butt shims ( + $25.00 )

What would benefit my particular setup the most and what would be complete overkill? I think I have some more reading to do...

John
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Jorge Carrillo Tuned (365 whp/340 wtq)
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#6 Old 03-11-2011, 09:40 PM
 
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My two cents on the alignment....

Zero toe up front, but a 16" in on rears gives you better braking stability. I run -1.6 rear all the time and fronts -2.3 for DD-ing and -2.9 for the track. I get even wear across the tread, but use up the fronts quick, so I have to rotate often.

Ask for max + caster, and I always go for zero cross camber and caster numbers (meaning equal side to side), because I don't believe in compensating for the crown in the road. Find a shop that will give you exactly what you want, which means they have to think outside the box a little. Run of the mill tire shops won't give you anything out of their computer's specs.

Since I have done quite a few alignments the old fashioned way (DIY) my "settling in" method is to take the car off the stands, across a couple hundred yards of bumpy road and few full lock circles each way, then align. Nothing more to settling it in.

If you go with camber plates, set the plates all the way inboard and back (for max +caster) turn the concentric bolts all the way for max negative camber, then bring the plates outward to degree you want. This will give the most range of adjustment (unless you want to have zero or positive camber for some reason )

Nothing more rewarding than a car that sticks when you need it to
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#7 Old 03-11-2011, 10:49 PM
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excellent advise

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#8 Old 03-12-2011, 08:40 PM
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I think since I haven't actually taken this stuff apart, I'm haing a hard time understanding exactly what a camber plate and camber bolt are and what they do. Do I need one or the other or both front and/or rear? Unfortunately, I still haven't had the time to read up on that stuff like I should have.

Thanks for the info so far both of you

John
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#9 Old 03-12-2011, 10:46 PM
 
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If you go with plates, you won't need the camber bolts up front. I don't use bolts or plates on the rears, and can still get the negative setting I want, but don't know if they're needed on sedans.

The bolts are similar to the stock concentric bolt (which is how you adjust camber) They have a cam lobe on them and you use them in the bottom strut hole to kick the bottom of the strut a little more (stock concentric bolt is in the top hole) I used them on my car (after lowering) until I got the plates.
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