09 wrx sway bars, are they needed? - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 05-06-2011, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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09 wrx sway bars, are they needed?

who here has done shocks and springs and left the sways alone? did you then add sways and notice a difference? this is hard for me to ask because everyone always says EVERY part made a WORLD of difference! to many butt dyno people and optimism out there haha.

currently im on Koni shocks with the front at about 75% hard and the rear at 50% paired with RCE yellow springs that are 330lbs rated. there is zero body role! you can nail a corner or whip the wheel as hard as you can on the highway and the car just turns flat with the hood remaining level. for some reason i think i need a bigger rear sway bar. dont ask why, probably just the modding bug. anyone go about it this way?

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post #2 of 23 Old 05-06-2011, 05:36 PM
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I upgraded my sways on my 04 WRX. I found the endlinks more useful than the sways. They gave a more direct feedback link between the suspension and the squishy bit behind the wheel. Helped me understand exactly where the car's limits were. Sways slightly improve the dynamics of the car, endlinks help you drive better.

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post #3 of 23 Old 05-06-2011, 07:26 PM
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I put Prodrive Blue springs and KYB AGX struts on my car first...I thought it handled better in all situations.

Then about 20 months later I put sways, endlinks, ALK, front subframe brace, rear subframe lock bolts, tierods, and upgraded all bushings. The first thing I realized is I could now feel/notice the front springs/struts compressing in the corners (independently from the rest of the suspension pieces). Please excuse my lack of technical terms, but it felt like the tightened suspension was making my springs/struts work harder (but not overdoing it). So, I turned the setting on my front struts (AGX's are adjustable) so they were stiffer. This seemed to allow the strut/spring assemblies to better resist what felt like an increased load being placed on them.

When I only had upgraded springs/struts, there would still be times when the car's tendency would be to understeer (although less frequently than with stock springs/struts). However, after installing the rest of the suspension pieces, that is no longer the case (personally I think the ALK is a big contributor to the handling capability of my car). The only thing holding me back from pushing the car to the absolute edge of its potential is that I need a seat/seatbelt combo that will actually keep me in my seat...

Is it perfect? Well, I guess the concept of 'perfection' is always open for debate. But it feels as if the front spring/strut assemblies are complimenting the rest of the suspension pieces better now.

For what it's worth, I'm fairly certain that Prodrive Blue springs are not as stiff as your RCE yellows...and I agree with what mosc has said: Now I am more confident as to what is happening underneath my car's unibody because I can am getting (re: feeling) feedback that is more accurate and precise than before.

I suppose when I only had springs/struts I also thought I didn't 'need' sways and endlinks (for street driving mind you). But now that I have experienced the feedback that they give, I can't imagine not having them.

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post #4 of 23 Old 05-07-2011, 04:58 PM
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Syno, I honestly believe it all depends on your driving habits... If you want a little more understeer or understeer get a rear/front bar accordingly.

It's probably the mod bug.... you need help... lol

Paul
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post #5 of 23 Old 05-08-2011, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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i can talk about racing suspension on a superbike but im a little lost on cars.

the front end holds pretty tight and feels fine if i had to say so. the rear feels like it might want to drive around the front sometimes if that helps any...

my car is down to 3000lbs and the rear end trunk and stuff is gutted so all the weight is in the front end.

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post #6 of 23 Old 05-09-2011, 12:45 PM
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Might be your right foot. Go to an auto-x and see what the car is doing and what you would prefer over the other.

Another question, what tires are you running when the back "feels" like it wants to slide out ?

It could be anything.... like your right foot.

Paul
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post #7 of 23 Old 05-09-2011, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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sorry if it sounded like i was drifting with the throttle. its more that the car feels light weight and that the rear end is lifting up. i dont have to be in the throttle, just take a turn at speed fast and it feels lose.

after driving around yesterday and turning up the rear struts harder, when i hit a bump in a turn it feels like the car is lifting off the ground like a bunny hop. like the spoiler isnt putting enough down force onto the rear wheels. i would think a large sway bar would keep the rear wheels in check with each other and keep them both planted to the ground.

the tires are 245/35/18 conti DW which are an extreme summer tire with insane reviews. my alignment i believe is zero toe all around and zero camber in the front and -2 in the rear. i just told my friend i like to drag race and wanted my tires to last as long as possilbe so all 4 are touching the ground as much as possible. the -2 in the rear is because the rear cant be adjusted.

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post #8 of 23 Old 05-09-2011, 03:22 PM
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-2* ? I apologize if you mean something else, i'm not following your journal/build thread.

That's a bit much for dragging and daily drivin if you mean -2*. Where is JR when you need him ?

Paul
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post #9 of 23 Old 05-09-2011, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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im not sure what i mean then.

i know i wanted all 4 tires on the ground. and to point strait ahead, thats toe right? so all tires have zero toe, the front camber bolts were able to be set to zero because it was only lowered 1.2". the rears were only lowered .7" but there is no adjusting. -2* or maybe -.02* i dont know. all i know is the tops of the tires are pitched in a little so the wheel isnt at a perfect 90* angle to the road like the fronts are.

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post #10 of 23 Old 05-10-2011, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by synolimit View Post
who here has done shocks and springs and left the sways alone? did you then add sways and notice a difference? this is hard for me to ask because everyone always says EVERY part made a WORLD of difference! to many butt dyno people and optimism out there haha.

currently im on Koni shocks with the front at about 75% hard and the rear at 50% paired with RCE yellow springs that are 330lbs rated. there is zero body role! you can nail a corner or whip the wheel as hard as you can on the highway and the car just turns flat with the hood remaining level. for some reason i think i need a bigger rear sway bar. dont ask why, probably just the modding bug. anyone go about it this way?
I havent driven it without any of these things on it, as I bought it with some of the upgrades on it, but I havea sway and a strut, and im on bilstein shocks w/ 1/2 inch springs, and my car is literally as tight as my buddies evo w/ the suspension upgrades he has.

Its pretty much the secks. Only difference really is that my tires will squeal/slide just a little before his will. I swear that thing sticks to the road like its glued on.
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post #11 of 23 Old 05-10-2011, 06:46 AM
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So if the rear is "bowed" out a little or the top of the tire is in considerably more than the bottom then it's probably 2* which is a little too much for your application. 1* max MAYBE 1.5*. But I don't auto-x nearly as much as I want to.

I would have given the front -.5* and the rear -1* with a rear sway. Then again, I am no guru as some on here for suspension.

Wholesale Suspension - Forum • View topic - What is Camber / Caster / Toe?

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post #12 of 23 Old 05-11-2011, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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talked to my friend, i was wrong on both numbers. i didnt mean to put -.02*. its actually -.2*. so its very small and should be since the rear was only lowered .7".

paul he did say he'd rather of done a negative in the front but since draging and tire wear was my number 1 i choose to try and keep them as close to zero as i could. i just now am seeing the down side and instead of another alignment, maybe fix the issue with sways but he said a rear sway would make it worse.

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post #13 of 23 Old 05-11-2011, 07:02 AM
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Ok, makes sense now. You need a bit more camber for rear handling.... Then again, I don't know your driving habits/style.

Can't have everything ... Pay to play as you already know.

Paul
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post #14 of 23 Old 05-16-2011, 07:49 AM
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Um, ya know that understeer & over steer can be dratically affected by swaybars, But you wont sort out oversteer by fitting a stiffer rear swaybar!
The thing is, if you stifen a sway bar, when cornering the inside wheel has less downward pressure on it and all the cars wieght is on the outside wheel... and this actually gives the other end of the car more grip while taking it away from the end with the too heavier sway bar.

So you inside rear wheel will be leaving the ground... If you want to get rid of your oversteer, you need a stronger FRONT swaybar! Solid Alloy links are definately the way to go! and as for Camber/caster angles, 1.5* front, 1* rear, and the WALK (Whiteline Anti Lift Kit) adds 0.5* for caster & thats all you'd need unless on the circuit on a regular basis
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post #15 of 23 Old 05-16-2011, 08:49 AM
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^^ There ya go...

BUT... Adding a stronger/bigger front sway with leaving the rear stock will make the rear swing even more.

Paul
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