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-   -   Talk me outta meth! (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/talk-me-outta-meth-31641/)

cwinterbower 11-18-2011 09:53 AM

Talk me outta meth!
 
Need someone to talk me out of moving to meth injection. I am currently tuned on E85, which I love. It burns clean, don't have to worry about my plugs so to speak, and I can run 30deg of timing at 6k on 22lbs of boost!
However...I have to plan around E85 stations when I take a trip 2 miles outside city limits or pack around 2 tunes, and then can't mix fuels. I can't make trips outside the state really without tuning to gas and then I have to grandma it because my wastegate spring is 19lbs and I am not going to run 19lbs on crap gas, on top of that I haven't spent a great deal of time on my gasoline tune. So I am very seriously considering moving to meth and losing the 5 or 6 horsepower on top.
Anyone with any horror stories they can share to change my mind?
Thanks!

pzr2874 11-18-2011 10:07 AM

E85 is easier and safer. Maybe you should just run Ethanol on occasion for cleaning and 93/91 all other times.

The cost of Meth will NOT offset the "out of your way" travel. We only have 4-5 stations in SA (not a small city by any means) which means it runs out fast (same day as the truck comes) which is Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Have you pulled your engine apart to see "how" clean E85 is burning ?

Might be the dealbreaker.

Meth is safe no matter what people say as long as you have the correct kit.

cwinterbower 11-18-2011 10:29 AM

Not sure how to take your post as it starts with "E85 is easier and safer" and ends with "meth is safe no matter what people say". I have had parts of the motor apart, and of course had the plugs out several times, no garbage on the plugs and valves look clean, granted it only has 17k miles on it and 10k of those are on E85. It's just turning into a major pita.

newtothegame 11-18-2011 10:35 AM

Meth is just like E85 IMO. Its not a permenant thing either. Unless you are carrying a jug of it around with you at all times. Its a temporary fix to a problem. But I have seen subies running it with great success also. If you do your research and get a competent kit, with all the fail safes integrated, and get a good tune, why should anyone have to talk you out of something YOU want to do?

cwinterbower 11-18-2011 10:42 AM

Well I always appreciate experience from someone who has maybe done it and hated it...Like I did the research on E85 but I didn't really consider just how big of a pain it would be come ski season, etc. I was in "make it go fast" mindset, so I am looking for experience I might not be fully considering this time around. And 50/50 meth is pretty readily available just about anywhere really, if you use the classic wwf/heet trick, I am just looking for experience really, I have not owned a meth injected car as of yet.

newtothegame 11-18-2011 10:46 AM

I see where you are coming from. Just a another quick question are you a member or do you check out NASIOC.com? I know several guys on there, and I know for a fact that they either have ran, or are still running meth. Have you already started looking at kits or just doing the pros/cons first?

pzr2874 11-18-2011 11:07 AM

Meth and E85 are equally safe. Never ran E85 but did run Meth.

E85 is safer if you don't "run out" of Meth... Sorry, should have slowed on the response.

I like Meth more based on availability and that I pay attention to my vehicles more than the commoner.

E85 isn't consistent unlike Meth (IF you can mix it correctly).

How's that Mr Picky? haha

cwinterbower 11-18-2011 11:08 AM

Yeah I am on NASIOC frequently. It always seems 6 of one half a dozen of the other, I have no doubt I can make it fairly fail safe. And I have sorta looked at a couple of the more popular kits, and the 5 or 6 horsepower isn't a big deal when you get in the 400whp range so that's sorta a moot point.
I was really just looking for real world experience and real cons. Typically when I get sucked into an E85 vs Meth thread it turns into flame wars, so thought maybe a cool head actually running it might have a few cons I have not considered.
Maybe I should just put the time in for a full 91 (Colorado) tune, on 19lbs and slacken the timing to whatever it takes and have 2 full tunes. I like the E85, just sick of fuel hunting.

newtothegame 11-18-2011 11:21 AM

Give it some time, as its kind of early on here, Im sure a few more people will hop on here and give some advice also.

synolimit 11-18-2011 04:42 PM

hmm, so your doing great on e85 and even though you can run 22psi on gas you just dont want to and feel its unsafe? of course it is at 30* but what about running maybe 24psi on gas and only 20* for example? There’s huge debates about power on Nasioc with timing vs boost, seems like your a timing guy while im a boost guy. does colorado have 93?

i wouldnt mind running either but i could only run Aquamist and feel safe. $750 or $1000 is just not in the budget though!! plus there’s always that "chance" something could fail with correct mix, fail safe's and idk how i feel about that. from what ive read i would never mix my own! something happens when you mix meth and water that the meth has some chemical reaction or evaporates or something but point is you lose your correct 50/50 mix. summit racing by my house carries Devils Own brew and thats all id trust. many people have still blown their motors running meth so to me the benefit doesnt out weigh the risk.

whats so wrong about switching maps when you need to? i know you said you dont have time in your gas map but either way you must put the time in to be able to run gas/meth or just gas.

personally if it were me i have no problem running and making a e85 map, then waiting till i am super low on fuel and then switching the map and filling up with gas. i mean really, that switch over tank of gas may make you baby it a little till your 100% sure all of the e85 is out of the tank (or gas is 100% out if your switching back) but do you really think in that first 100 miles your gonna go all fast and the furious on the street and need all 400 of your horse power? like you said, its for trips and stuff. why do you need 400awhp to go snowboarding vs 300-350hp??

just keep your "summer" e85 map and make a good, safe, lower boost, low timing "winter" map and enjoy the money saving and fuel saving in the winter.

PS i hope you know E85 in the winter all over the US is NOT e85! its more like e70 so you might as well run gas in the winter anywho.

cwinterbower 11-18-2011 04:54 PM

E85 in most places doesn't actually change much in the winter, I know regulations say e70 is a winter blend, but even here with several tuned e85 Subaru's and 4 stations selling E85, they simply do not go through enough volume for the tanks to mix out seasonally. It's more like e75 year round, I have never seen my afr change much seasonally. I don't think I would be comfortable pushing 24lbs on 91 which is Colorado high octane, and at 22.5 through to 7k it's right at the 1.5 XT-R's efficiency. High elevation would require a dom 3 or bigger to push 24 anywhere past about 5000, which is just not my game. It's not really about timing vs boost to me, I tune for the boost I want or near the Turbo's efficiency and then I get as much timing as possible, which usually results with best torque and power.
And you never know when random street race is gonna break out! Haha, if I have the car I want the power all the time. But yeah I have an eco map tuned at 0 wgdc's for mostly closed loop driving that I will probably just live with. Just wanted to see if there were any huge drawbacks I was not thinking of.

synolimit 11-18-2011 10:28 PM

besides poorly mixed meth i dont think there are a lot of downsides as long as you have a good kit. tune amount of new tuning sucks too.

dumdum 11-20-2011 10:37 AM

The downside is when the failsafes don't work. The ECU has no idea when you run out of meth,the nozzle get blocked,the pump malfunctions or it gets mixed incorrectly. To get the benifits you need to be tuned for it and meth injection usually requires a leaner base AFR. Most tuner tune meth maps for 12-12.5:1 AFR.
[url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958995]There are failsafe, failsafe and failsafes... - NASIOC[/url]

turmic 11-20-2011 08:10 PM

Which is why I stay away from meth. I just wish my tuner would get his feet wet in the E85 game. Eh....oh well. Ron always comes through with a good responce. !Thumbs Up

cwinterbower 11-20-2011 10:03 PM

Well, I haven't seen anything that really surprises me yet, so I guess I just need to make up my mind...and tuning is not an issue.
Thanks for the input.


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