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-   -   Stage 2 help (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/stage-2-help-31054/)

ramm21 07-17-2011 06:11 PM

Stage 2 help
 
So i finally got to installing my downpipe, and now we have some issues. This was my first time doing anything major to any car. I have a '11 hatch with Cobb AP running stage 1 for about a month now without any problems. It took me almost all day to take the stock pipe off and put the new one on. Its a Cobb catted bellmouth. After I got the turbo shield back on her, I connected the AP and flashed to the stage 2 map, and then did the ecu reset on the AP. I then started her up, and it took a bit longer, which is pretty normal I hear. Anyways, I got really excited about the sound and all, but then that turned to horror when I went to check for any leaks.

I forgot to put the IC back on, so the engine ran for about 15-20 seconds in neutral without it. After I put the IC back on, I again reset the ecu and started her up again. After about 15 seconds or so, some light white smoke started coming out from underneath the turbo shield. It was gently rising, and not being forced out. The smoke had no real odor, all I could smell was just the normal engine bay odor. During the removal of the stock pipe I used quite a bit of PB blaster, so I was guessing it was just that being burned up, or maybe some oils or whatnot that may have been on the new DP??

The car sounded fine, and no CELs came up, so I decided to hook up the AP and drive it around the block. The car drove fine, but when I clicked on boost levels on the AP, all I could manage was between -10 and -3 psi. I only took her up to about 3.5K rpm, and kept it under 3K most of the ride. I can hear the turbo spooling up, and what I think is the BOV(ima noob, and this is my first turbo car). The car sounded fine, no strange noises that I could make out. I switched to the AFR sensor, and it was pretty much around 14.5, +/-.3 or so when I was on the gas, but when I let off the gas, the AFR jumps up to around 20. I'm guessing thats not normal? I didnt datalog anything, I just knew something was wrong so I headed back to the house ASAP.

So the question is, what could it be? I know it could be a leak somewhere, probs around the IC? I also saw posts concerning the white smoke with people saying it could be the rings, or some other nasty internal problems. How should I proceed? I dont know it this is related, but another thing I thought was strange was the AP flash to stage 1. I bought the AP at the dealership, and the "expert" put it in for me, and flashed/reset it to stage 1. What I didnt understand was that he messed around with some cables under the glovebox. It's a cable with a green connector, and he left it unhooked. What is that cable for? Should it be unhooked? Sorry for the longest post in the history of man, but I wanted to be thorough lol.

synolimit 07-17-2011 06:52 PM

first, the smoke should be Cozmoline burning off the new DP (or your PB) as most metal people use it to store parts so they dont rust. its a sticky yellow oil when applied.

second, -10 and -3psi? you meen postive 10 and 3? even a NA car should read zero when at WOT. if not then you have a leak. take the intake off and build a boost leak tester (search here for what im talking about). once you pump it up you'll hear leaks loud and clear.

third, when your in gear and back off the throttle from higher RPMs the car will engine brake. during this time the ecu shuts off the injectors and you will see 20-21.9 AFR depending on the gauge. its totally normal because zero fuel is being added. also, never look at an AP's AF gauge. its only piggy backing off the stock O2 sensor and they cannot read correctly. that is why wide band O2 sensors are made and need to be used during tuning.

go to cobbs site and find out how to flash. im pretty sure the green connector was for older models. they should have all the info you should need about that thing.

you should be fine but get a boost test first before anything.

RcrsWetDream 07-17-2011 08:04 PM

The smoke was most likely just oil on the dp/pb blaster/if you used anti-seize burning up.

The car not going into boost could be because the car can't really make boost until 2500-3k or so with just a dp and tune like yo have and that's in 3rd gear with the gas mashed to the ground... It sounds like you were just going easy on it not giving it much gas just to see how it was running.

I know I start to see positive pressure in the low 2k range at wide open throttle (WOT) in 3rd gear but I have a lot less holding back my turbo. If you're trying to get boost by 3k in 1st gear then that's even more difficult, and pretty much impossible at anything less than 50% throttle. Even if you do have a big leak that keeps you from making boost, you're not going to hurt anything as the car will run really rich. Give it a WOT jab from 2k rpm's in 3rd gear and see if you can get it to boost.

ramm21 07-17-2011 08:35 PM

good to hear about the afr and the smoke. thats why i didnt really step on teh gas around the block+ its a 25/30 zone. but i will log a pull in 3rd either tonight or tomorrow, when i get some time. so when i hear the turbo spooling, its not really making any boost? thats what got me all worried. i heard the turbo whistle, but the AP wasnt registering any boost. thats why i parked her and didnt do anything else until i got input from you guys

RcrsWetDream 07-17-2011 10:26 PM

You'll always hear the turbo spooling, making boost is all about engine load though. You can run the car at 25% throttle all the way to redline and not make boost. Mash the gas and you'll go into boost. Reason being is the turbo needs a certain amount of exhaust gas to fill the intake charge with compressed air, meanwhile the engine is sucking in air. Not enough exhaust gas (due to low load) won't spin the turbo fast enough to suck in enough air, which won't send more air to the engine than it naturally breathes in so you don't make boost.

The second you add more load, the turbo sucks in more air because it spins faster, and it sends more air to the throttle body than the engine naturally wants to take in so you create boost.

wrx1456 07-17-2011 10:36 PM

^^^ thats a good explaination. Nice and simple, even I can understand it.

turmic 07-18-2011 09:40 AM

Yeah, I agree with everything that has been said so far. I know you're just being overly cautious, but everything that you have described sounds like you weren't in the throttle enough to make positive boost. The white smoke you are referencing has to be coming out the tail pipe or oil fill pipe w/ the dip stick out. If its just white smoke coming off the DP its just the coating they put on the metal to keep it from rusting or your PB.

Everything sounds good else wise. The AFR will jump into the 20s when you get off the gas because of what was explained up above. The injectors get cut off and that makes a ton more air then fuel at that point. Plus, the ecu is using the OEM o2 sensor and it get easily confused with quick changes of AFR. Which is why a wideband is much better. If you get into a area that has better speed limits give it some gas and you'll love the new feel of your Stage 2 power. !Thumbs Up

synolimit 07-18-2011 01:56 PM

i still advise not doing anything untill you do a boost leak test. i dont care if your a professional amongst professionals. if you remove the IC, intake, inlet, manifold etc you should always check the system after you put everything back together to alleviate headaches and hassles. takes 5 minutes and under $20 to make a tester.

turmic 07-18-2011 02:01 PM

Not a bad idea though. To give it a quick once or twice through to just double check it for boost leaks.

RcrsWetDream 07-18-2011 05:53 PM

My boost tester is as follows:

Put everything back together and set up a tuning appointment.
Go out to road tune with your tuner.
WTF it hits 16 psi on a 21 psi target and can't hold that for more than a second.
WTF my bpv doesn't work either
Scrubbed tuning session
DAY LATER
Find out line from intake mani to bpv under the intercooler popped off on first log pull.

Boom, boost leak tester. I need a compressor.

ramm21 07-19-2011 06:37 PM

Okay so I have the day off and i did a pull this morning, get back to the house and plug it into the lappy, and the Accessport says it cant load the file. All i can think of is that i thought i hit the button to stop logging, but i really didnt and when i unplugged the AP from the car it lost the data. I have to drive out a ways to a straightaway where i can log, so I ended up driving out again and this time made sure i got the run in. I get back to the house just now and load it into excel, and the data doesnt load all nice and rowy/columny, but instead just separates it with commas in a big ass paragraph). It's there, and its a pita to read, so im gonna wait until my roomie gets back tonight (he's a lot better with excel than i am) and try to make it all pretty so u guys can look at it.

Anyways, the runs felt great. Im loving the sound and can feel the difference between stage 1 and 2, although i think going from stock to stage 1 was the biggest difference in overall drive quality like smoothness, power, etc..

Tried attaching the messed up pull just for fun, but it wont accept excel format.. how can i post the pull once i get it all straightened out?

ramm21 07-19-2011 06:48 PM

[quote=synolimit;264460]i still advise not doing anything untill you do a boost leak test. i dont care if your a professional amongst professionals. if you remove the IC, intake, inlet, manifold etc you should always check the system after you put everything back together to alleviate headaches and hassles. takes 5 minutes and under $20 to make a tester.[/quote]

So I went against your advice and did the pull without a boost leak test. I researched it on here and the 3gwrx forum, but Im still not 100% on exactly how to build one and work it. I saw an old post that looked pretty detailed, but the pics wouldn't come up :mad: Since I didnt have much free time today I decided to just do a pull and see what the numbers looked like.

ramm21 07-19-2011 06:50 PM

[quote=RcrsWetDream;264424]You'll always hear the turbo spooling, making boost is all about engine load though. You can run the car at 25% throttle all the way to redline and not make boost. Mash the gas and you'll go into boost. Reason being is the turbo needs a certain amount of exhaust gas to fill the intake charge with compressed air, meanwhile the engine is sucking in air. Not enough exhaust gas (due to low load) won't spin the turbo fast enough to suck in enough air, which won't send more air to the engine than it naturally breathes in so you don't make boost.

The second you add more load, the turbo sucks in more air because it spins faster, and it sends more air to the throttle body than the engine naturally wants to take in so you create boost.[/quote]

Thanks. This explains a lot and it made sense the first time i read it lol

ramm21 07-19-2011 06:54 PM

[QUOTE=synolimit;264413]go to cobbs site and find out how to flash. im pretty sure the green connector was for older models. they should have all the info you should need about that thing.
QUOTE]

Apparently when u attach the green connector and turn the key to the run position they make the car go through a test mode to diagnose stuff like bad relays, etc.. (from the 3g forum).

turmic 07-19-2011 09:31 PM

[quote=ramm21;264548][QUOTE=synolimit;264413]go to cobbs site and find out how to flash. im pretty sure the green connector was for older models. they should have all the info you should need about that thing.
[/quote]

Apparently when u attach the green connector and turn the key to the run position they make the car go through a test mode to diagnose stuff like bad relays, etc.. (from the 3g forum).[/quote]

Please try and use all your quotes and responces to one post. It drives the mods insane. But, the green connectors sound the same as previous models then. I saw people upload excel to a website that was viewable as a img link on here before. But, I don't know which website it was anymore.


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