SPT CBE and Ingen CAI - Subaru WRX Forum
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#1 Old 05-14-2011, 12:42 PM
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SPT CBE and Ingen CAI

I just got a 11 wrx and im looking at puttin on a spt cbe, i really like to throw on a cobb tbe but dont wanna void warranty. So i'm gonna settle w/ this, also its a little cheaper. But im wondering to will i have to re-flash my ecu once i put in take on?....also to anyone know the gains from the spt exhaust?
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#2 Old 05-14-2011, 01:05 PM
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I don't think a CBE will deny warranty work. You can't void a warranty. Id get another CBE so you don't upgrade later when you want 3" insted of 2.5" and the welds can break on the SPT's because there not stainless like the pipe.

No intake can go on these without a reflash! Touch the ecu 1 time and the dealer can tell and can deny warrenty work. Personally I wouldn't touch the car at all if your worried about the warranty. These cars are so dangerously lean to begin with I wouldnt chance it by even putting a CBE on! Personally I'm not worried about the warranty so id get off the OEM tune pronto!!!

A CBE will produce zero gain!

These questions and more get asked everyday. Spend sometime searching and looking at past threads for all your answers because I know they've been asked before.

Good luck with your choices, I'm sure all will be well going either way!

Scott-2011 WRX 335HP 394TQ 93 VF52!
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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#3 Old 05-14-2011, 04:18 PM
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^ +1
Almost none if any gain....You wont see it anyway thats for sure.
But it will sound good
Unabomber's Manifesto - NASIOC

since your an 11, not every thing in the link will be dead on, but its a fantastic reference and learning tool.
...............................GL................. ....CHEERS!!!

Randy-
2002 blaze WRX- sold:(
2004 Wrx-sold
2011 Wrx limited
99 Fozz- sold
Eagle eye crew
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#4 Old 05-14-2011, 07:04 PM
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KNOW YOUR WARRANTY RIGHTS

Many consumers are confused regarding the installation and service of third party
accessories for their vehicles. This confusion often is the result of incorrect information
intended to convince you that only the manufacturer or authorized dealer should service
your vehicle. What does the law provide?

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is Federal Law enacted in 1975 establishing warranty
requirements. The Act provides that: “Warranties, written or implied, cannot be
conditioned on the consumer’s use of any article or service identified by brand, trade, or
corporate name.” This prohibition against conditioning warranties on the use of
authorized items or services can only be waived by the Federal Trade Commission if two
specific factors are found: 1) The Federal Trade Commission is satisfied that the
warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used
and 2) The Federal Trade Commission finds it is in the public interest. The Federal Trade
Commission in determining what is in the public interest, seeks and accepts comments
from the public.

What does this mean to you? Purchasing and having accessories installed in your vehicle
does not void your warranty unless the manufacturer has been able to convince the
Federal Trade Commission that the installation and/or service will cause a malfunction to
the vehicle and the restriction is in the public interest. These are difficult tests to meet,
especially since the public is economically and technologically ahead through third party
accessory options. If your manufacturer or dealer tells you that your warranty is void or
able to be voided due to third party accessories or service, ask him for the Federal Trade
Commission determination supporting the claim. You may even want to call the FTC
yourself.

This overview was written by our corporate attorney after research into the Magnuson-
Moss Warranty act. It is an explanation of the law in plain English so that our customers
may understand their rights.

For the complete Magnuson-Moss Warranty act search the internet.

This text was taken, verbatim, from the Website of the Mobile Electronics Retailers
association.

I was shown this by my local mobile electronics shop when i asked about getting my windows tinted and an automatic starter/turbo timer installed figured you'd might like this

Last edited by blu11wrx; 05-14-2011 at 10:22 PM. Reason: forgot something
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#5 Old 05-14-2011, 11:45 PM
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^ Keep in mind, that the burden of proof that your aftermarket part did not cause the failure is on your hands. They don't have to prove anything, they can just say "no" to the repair at their whim.

Yes, a custom tune is required for that intake.
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#6 Old 05-15-2011, 07:22 AM
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alright how bout this...what u all think bout invidia's q300 cbe??? worth it or not??
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#7 Old 05-15-2011, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesaltyguy View Post
alright how bout this...what u all think bout invidia's q300 cbe??? worth it or not??

Never heard of any bad opinions on Invidia.
I would do alot of research on anything AM you want to put on your car because one wrong thing will make you lose power, throw a CEL or worse damage your turbo.

Good luck man.

Cobb Accessport Stage 2.
Rebuild in progress....

Chuck.
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#8 Old 05-15-2011, 12:46 PM
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[QUOTE=brfatal;261207

Yes, a custom tune is required for that intake.[/QUOTE]

I see this often, yet when I have asked for a dyno graph with the A/F ratio on it, no one has shown me one. I have asked on a few boards, yet nada.

I can't seem to believe that Subaru will allow a car to leave the factory with that dangerously close of an A/F ratio that an intake will cause a problem. I also can't see how the stock ECU can not adjust for such a small increase in airflow.

Please enlighten me here. as all I ask for is some real world info, and not hearsay.

Thanks

PS Like I also have said before, I would throw my car on the dyno at work and get A/F graphs, but we only have a dyno cell and 2wd chassis dyno.
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#9 Old 05-15-2011, 01:53 PM
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ive seen plenty of dynos. the stock tune runs lean and forces the ECU to retard timing because there is knock. plus dynos dont need to show it, its clear when the graph bounces all over the place and power goes up and down up and down. the tuner has a wideband plugged in and is watching it with his own eyes. soon as it runs to high he backs off. plus a lot of people dont do base runs. there first dyno run has already been richened up quite a bit.

subi lets the car leave the factory with a safe open and closed loop map. the problem is a long time delay when the ECU switches from one to the other. the delay is whats dangerous as ive seen people report 14.5 AFR to about 4000-4500RPM when they punch it. my tune runs high 10's low 11's as soon as i hit WOT. its set for about 11.2 with a zero time delay. asking non tuners will get you know where. if you want an answer that you said you have been seeking on all forums, PM the local tuner and ask him direct instead of waiting around for someone to show you the answer.

yes the stock ECU can adjust AFR trims but by a very small margine. before my first tune i drove with a TBE and stuff for a week or so staying out of boost. when i added my CAI and 3-port the day before my tune i went from 25MPG on the highway to 31MPG!!! that little CAI adds a hell of a lot more air than you think. the ECU cant adjust that. with the stock time delay if i would have punched it a whole bunch of crap could have happend. however you are some what protected with your knock sensor and MAP sensor. both can retard timing and boost cut if it gets to dangerous.

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http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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#10 Old 05-15-2011, 01:57 PM
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[QUOTE=brfatal;261207]^ Keep in mind, that the burden of proof that your aftermarket part did not cause the failure is on your hands. They don't have to prove anything, they can just say "no" to the repair at their whim..............



actually the burden of proof is on the dealer.they have to prove that the part that was installed caused the problem.If you take the time to read the above mentioned warranty act it says that in plain english.They will however try to deny any claim due to aftermarket parts and say that you have to prove the part didnt cause the problem,"and just say no".Thats why you have to be educated and quote the warranty act so they know that you know what your talking about.Then if they still try and just say no,the next stop should be a lawyer.
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#11 Old 05-15-2011, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synolimit View Post
ive seen plenty of dynos. the stock tune runs lean and forces the ECU to retard timing because there is knock. plus dynos dont need to show it, its clear when the graph bounces all over the place and power goes up and down up and down. the tuner has a wideband plugged in and is watching it with his own eyes. soon as it runs to high he backs off. plus a lot of people dont do base runs. there first dyno run has already been richened up quite a bit.

subi lets the car leave the factory with a safe open and closed loop map. the problem is a long time delay when the ECU switches from one to the other. the delay is whats dangerous as ive seen people report 14.5 AFR to about 4000-4500RPM when they punch it. my tune runs high 10's low 11's as soon as i hit WOT. its set for about 11.2 with a zero time delay. asking non tuners will get you know where. if you want an answer that you said you have been seeking on all forums, PM the local tuner and ask him direct instead of waiting around for someone to show you the answer.

yes the stock ECU can adjust AFR trims but by a very small margine. before my first tune i drove with a TBE and stuff for a week or so staying out of boost. when i added my CAI and 3-port the day before my tune i went from 25MPG on the highway to 31MPG!!! that little CAI adds a hell of a lot more air than you think. the ECU cant adjust that. with the stock time delay if i would have punched it a whole bunch of crap could have happend. however you are some what protected with your knock sensor and MAP sensor. both can retard timing and boost cut if it gets to dangerous.
Thanks


I'll just find this out on my own. I will look into this time delay and see just what is what.

I wonder if it is possible to run the car in 2wd only. Then I can do this on my own.
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#12 Old 05-15-2011, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJJer View Post

I wonder if it is possible to run the car in 2wd only. Then I can do this on my own.
..............




the only way you can run 2wd is if you have a 4eat.All you have to do is put a 15 amp fuse in the slot marked fwd in the box under the hood.I have heard of people dynoing and racing in this mode.
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#13 Old 05-15-2011, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJJer View Post
I see this often, yet when I have asked for a dyno graph with the A/F ratio on it, no one has shown me one. I have asked on a few boards, yet nada.

I can't seem to believe that Subaru will allow a car to leave the factory with that dangerously close of an A/F ratio that an intake will cause a problem. I also can't see how the stock ECU can not adjust for such a small increase in airflow.

Please enlighten me here. as all I ask for is some real world info, and not hearsay.

Thanks

PS Like I also have said before, I would throw my car on the dyno at work and get A/F graphs, but we only have a dyno cell and 2wd chassis dyno.
I have no charts to show you (I used to know where some where, but that site has been taken down), just pointing out that Injen has consistently made some of the worst intakes in this regard for many years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by black beast2 View Post
actually the burden of proof is on the dealer.they have to prove that the part that was installed caused the problem.If you take the time to read the above mentioned warranty act it says that in plain english.They will however try to deny any claim due to aftermarket parts and say that you have to prove the part didnt cause the problem,"and just say no".Thats why you have to be educated and quote the warranty act so they know that you know what your talking about.Then if they still try and just say no,the next stop should be a lawyer.
One thing you're neglecting (because I doubt you knew), I'm a former Subaru service adviser. I say this as someone who has been on both sides of warranty denial, the dealership is in their full rights to deny you based on mods if said mods can in any possible way be linked to the failure. You want to take it to your lawyer? You just made my point: if you are taking them to court, the burden of proof is on YOU that the dealership wronged you since you are the plaintiff. Not only will you have to prove that the part didn't cause the failure, but also that abuse (which is a trump card on the dealership's end) didn't cause it either. You're in for one hell of a case, all because you got denied a few hundred dollar repair.

You're being it a bit naive about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. It was not meant to protect people who modify their cars. It was meant to protect people who were having their warranties denied for trivial crap like going anywhere other than the dealership for oil changes or minor repairs.
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#14 Old 05-15-2011, 05:32 PM
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^you coud be right,all I know is a few months after I bought my car my AC compressor sized on me.The first thing out of their mouth after looking under the hood was that it wont be covered because of my down pipe and bov.I told them to inspect it anyway.After they found out what happend,sure enough they told me it wont be covered and gave me a ridiculous quote.Needless to say two days later i went back in with a print out of the warranty act in hand asked them how a down pipe and bov could cause the AC to go out.After waiting for about fifteen minutes the guy came back and told me it will be covered under warrany and sorry for the inconvince.So it helped me because im sure there are alot of people who just take the dealers word that they voided their warranty and then pay out the ass..If it did go to court all I would have to prove is that they didnt cover it, they would have to prove why they didnt,and in my case not only would they have to fix the car but they would of most likely have been paying all the related court fees as well.
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#15 Old 05-16-2011, 11:43 AM
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looking for a good tbe for a 11 wrx....any idea's? I know it's a new model, but can't seem to find any. will any 10 aftermarket tbe's work????.....thanks guys
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