REDCHARGE: Seriously...heat soak is not a concern pre-turbo. It gets heated in the turbo anyways and then cooled in the intercooler before it gets to the intake manifold. Why don't people understand that yet? Boost's diagram even shows that...if you'd look at it.
Edit: Yes cold air moves quicker pre-turbo. But, if your going 60mph. I'm sure the air in the engine bay is just as cold as it is in the fender well. Plus, probably more abundent. Doesn't anyone think that air isn't suppost to be realistically getting into the fender well? So, that's a restriction. Plus, at idle...if your engine is that hot. Most of the air near the engine will be heated, fender well or not.
Well, I think the truth is somewhere in between those positions. Colder intake air is going to be cooler after the turbo too and cooler where it counts: into the cylinder. The engine is a heat pump so the colder the intake and the hotter the exhaust, the more efficient it gets.
Of course, the point is that with a half way decent heat shield, even a "hot air intake" aka short ram is not going to be much hotter than something from deeper in the fender well. Hot air rises and air volume flows from COLD to HOT. In other words, the properties of thermodynamics are in your favor.
And turmic's right too, a 5degC intake difference is not going to translate into NEAR 5degC where it actually counts: into the cylinder. It would take a large temperature variance on the intake side to be noticeable.
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16G powered lagless fun
Redcharge, thanks for the suggested direction with the pulleys. I'll give it some more consideration.
I'm not a big fan of CAI's on turbo charged engines as it's a very small difference in temperature, creates more resonance, and I'm not too fond of the low filter placement. Also, being a longer tube, it generally indicates a bit more of a loss on the low end.
The K&N Short Ram is a very nice unit. Expensive, but nice. I wish the tube was made of plastic for less sound, but it'll do.
turmic: I agree with you on the fenderwell being somewhat of a blocked pathway from a good flow of air, whereas the K&N would be getting a nice fresh helping. I too agree that the turbo heats the air anyway, so what's the point? But I've seen arguments that suggest the following: If air temps air even 3 degrees cooler entering with a CAI, then if the turbo heats the air, it will still be 3 degrees cooler. How that argument has stood for this long is beyond me. Besides, I think a plastic hosed SRI will have cooler temps than an aluminum CAI. Aluminum will generally get hotter than the plastic.
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By the way, anyone have any special video or pic requests for the intake install? I will obviously review it's quality, fitment, etc... but I'm not sure if I want to reflash to stock mapping just to install it for the sound. Then again, I just may do that, as I haven't seen any K&N vids on an 08 WRX. Let me know if you guys have a special request.
But I've seen arguments that suggest the following: If air temps air even 3 degrees cooler entering with a CAI, then if the turbo heats the air, it will still be 3 degrees cooler. How that argument has stood for this long is beyond me.
I have never heard anybody knowledgeable say that. It makes a difference yes but the temperature difference being preserved through the other end of a giant hairdryer is, well, absurd. Also, the intercooler further rounds things out if it's doing it's job properly.
Now, is there a difference between tuning at 95 degrees vs 75 degrees? Yes, hell yes. Does that add up to noticeable power differences? Yes. That's not ONLY because of intake temperature though, the entire system is heated up. The heat difference itself is reduced. If you're talking about ONLY an intake temperature difference, I don't think that translates nearly as directly to the bottom line as air temperature itself does.
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16G powered lagless fun
I have never heard anybody knowledgeable say that. It makes a difference yes but the temperature difference being preserved through the other end of a giant hairdryer is, well, absurd. Also, the intercooler further rounds things out if it's doing it's job properly.
Now, is there a difference between tuning at 95 degrees vs 75 degrees? Yes, hell yes. Does that add up to noticeable power differences? Yes. That's not ONLY because of intake temperature though, the entire system is heated up. The heat difference itself is reduced. If you're talking about ONLY an intake temperature difference, I don't think that translates nearly as directly to the bottom line as air temperature itself does.
Yes, exactly. A 3-5 degree difference is negligible especially considering the heating past the turbo and the cooling from the I/C. Some people seem to assume that the temperatures are constants and will always exactly heat up the same amount everytime. It's simply inaccurate and baffles me how that principal is used as a counter argument in the larger forums.
REDCHARGE: Seriously...heat soak is not a concern pre-turbo. It gets heated in the turbo anyways and then cooled in the intercooler before it gets to the intake manifold. Why don't people understand that yet? Boost's diagram even shows that...if you'd look at it.
Edit: Yes cold air moves quicker pre-turbo. But, if your going 60mph. I'm sure the air in the engine bay is just as cold as it is in the fender well. Plus, probably more abundent. Doesn't anyone think that air isn't suppost to be realistically getting into the fender well? So, that's a restriction. Plus, at idle...if your engine is that hot. Most of the air near the engine will be heated, fender well or not.
FYI on a non-foglighted 08, the foglight grill lets cold air directly into the lower fenderwell.
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Brad
K&N, Perrin EL wrapped header, Catted Downpipe, Stage II XPT tune, K4RT30Y STS
Dude, you are the man i have been starving for good input on the 08. i have a silver 08 sedan as well and im still stock besides my accessport. i hope you dont mind me copying off of you a little bit! so any regrets so far?
Dude, you are the man i have been starving for good input on the 08. i have a silver 08 sedan as well and im still stock besides my accessport. i hope you dont mind me copying off of you a little bit! so any regrets so far?
Thanks dude! I don't mind you following the path at all, in fact, we are going to re-evaluate everything and consider offering Staged packages while allowing the buyer to choose the parts they want to go with. I'm just glad I've been able to help.
Regrets? Yes. I've been meaning to do a 5000 mile update thread just to give additional feedback on parts, but I'll tell you the one item that's been a bit of a battle. The COBB Heat Shield. It was great at first, then started developing a rattle. I tightened it down, and it was fixed. about 500 miles later, more rattle. Re-tightened again, this time, it didn't fix it. Now it's rattling at full force! Haha. I will be replacing it with an SPT Heat Shield very soon. It looks a little larger and looks stock-ish With that said, I'm sure the COBB units rattles can be remedied with a little time on pinpointing why, but I prefer the design of the SPT over it, so it's time to swap out.
Where did you source the turbo, is a direct bolt on, and how much was the footwell kit?
I got the turbo and footwell illumination kit from my distributer. The turbo is a direct bolt on.
Retail on the footwell is 46.54. Both parts can be bought from your dealer. Or if you're in no immediate rush TrebleRacing.com should be up and running by February.
Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions!
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Great news! Turbo, TMIC and BPV shipped out earlier today!
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