Beginning my 09 wrx - Page 3 - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #31 of 49 Old 09-06-2010, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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Ya I was lookin at ATS but I wasnt quite sure on there reputation. Sorry for getting back to this slow some lady in a truck backed into the car the other day.... it was in a parking lot..... she said she didnt see it..... because we all know the last place to see a car is in a parking lot..... come on! how do you miss a 3000 lb object!!! Sorry for the rant... anyway I wanted to know wha people were doing about the cat. With or without?? and what are the perks for both sides? here are no emissions tests in ohio so that not a problem. Until then I am tempted to go without.
-Tanks guys!
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post #32 of 49 Old 09-06-2010, 11:10 AM
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Catless is cheaper, lighter. And some say that you could possibly get a few more HP out of the car. But usually not that big a difference IMHO.

Joshua
"2007 WRX- PPG'd, 20G- Tim Bailey tuned
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post #33 of 49 Old 09-06-2010, 08:06 PM
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Okay if I may let me make some corrections to some of the statements made here. First you DO NOT need to do anything to your fuel system unless you are upgrading the turbo. It comes rich from the factory already, the worst you could do is add more fuel to it. Next the COBB AP is a great add at an inexpensive price. With that for tuning all you need is to fill out a form with COBB and they send you new maps/tuning. For a first time start on a WRX I would highly suggest the following with prices and where to get them:

Start with the Invidia Cat-Back and Invidia Down pipe---$1019.31 at rallysportdirect.com
Next get the COBB AP with Stage 2 MAP--$595.00 at rallysportdirect

Those options will get you about 340bhp at the dyno, and about 290whp.

Next go with the Full Race 1.5 scroll header/up-pipe and turbo upgrade--$4427.00 at full-race.com
Tial Q Blow off valve--$260.00 at full-race.com
DeatschWerks 650cc Top-Feed Fuel Injectors--$379.00 from hptmotorsports.com
AVO 245LPH High Flow Fuel Pump--$305.00 from hptmotorsports.com
Cobb Tuning SS Turbo Heat Sheild--$60 from rallysportdirect.com
Process West TMIC--$898.44 from rallysportdirect.com
Mishimoto Radiator and hoses--$342 from ebay.com

For suspension yes it sucks balls stock so I went with a megan coilover damper system. Also improved bushings throughout is a HUGE improvement. pretty much I went to hptmotorsports.com and if they sold it I bought it. Anyways hope that helps.

Now on top of that I would get any turbo timer you would like. I personally like the Greddy Turbo Timer II. Also the stock clutch and pressure plate is completely worthless so at the same time you do the turbo add this as well:

ACT Stage 3+ Carbon Clutch kit--$809 from hptmotorsports.com
ACT StreetLite Chromoly Steel Flywheel--$296 from hptmotorsports.com

Now the stock tranny will break easily so if you plan on revving up and red line shifts I would look at having your tranny rebuilt, your car will be out of commission for about a month but well worth it. Go to importperformancetrans.com, its about $2800 to have it done but it will be basically bulletproof after.
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post #34 of 49 Old 09-06-2010, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junior010104 View Post
Okay if I may let me make some corrections to some of the statements made here. First you DO NOT need to do anything to your fuel system unless you are upgrading the turbo. It comes rich from the factory already, the worst you could do is add more fuel to it. Next the COBB AP is a great add at an inexpensive price. With that for tuning all you need is to fill out a form with COBB and they send you new maps/tuning. For a first time start on a WRX I would highly suggest the following with prices and where to get them:

Start with the Invidia Cat-Back and Invidia Down pipe---$1019.31 at rallysportdirect.com
Next get the COBB AP with Stage 2 MAP--$595.00 at rallysportdirect

Those options will get you about 340bhp at the dyno, and about 290whp.

Next go with the Full Race 1.5 scroll header/up-pipe and turbo upgrade--$4427.00 at full-race.com
Tial Q Blow off valve--$260.00 at full-race.com
DeatschWerks 650cc Top-Feed Fuel Injectors--$379.00 from hptmotorsports.com
AVO 245LPH High Flow Fuel Pump--$305.00 from hptmotorsports.com
Cobb Tuning SS Turbo Heat Sheild--$60 from rallysportdirect.com
Process West TMIC--$898.44 from rallysportdirect.com
Mishimoto Radiator and hoses--$342 from ebay.com

For suspension yes it sucks balls stock so I went with a megan coilover damper system. Also improved bushings throughout is a HUGE improvement. pretty much I went to hptmotorsports.com and if they sold it I bought it. Anyways hope that helps.

Now on top of that I would get any turbo timer you would like. I personally like the Greddy Turbo Timer II. Also the stock clutch and pressure plate is completely worthless so at the same time you do the turbo add this as well:

ACT Stage 3+ Carbon Clutch kit--$809 from hptmotorsports.com
ACT StreetLite Chromoly Steel Flywheel--$296 from hptmotorsports.com

Now the stock tranny will break easily so if you plan on revving up and red line shifts I would look at having your tranny rebuilt, your car will be out of commission for about a month but well worth it. Go to importperformancetrans.com, its about $2800 to have it done but it will be basically bulletproof after.
ok let me make some. yes you can max out the stock fuel system with the stock turbo so upgrading is needed above 19-20psi!

the stock fuel map IS FAR FROM RICH!!! 14.5 A/F full throttle till about 3500rpm and doesnt drop below 12 till something like 4500rpm! the stock map is so lean most tuners wont ever touch the car nor advise driving it hard till that stock map is gone! look at any stock base map run on any dyno.

cobb is also not that inexpensive when its about $200 more than any tuner charges for a first tune or if you showed up for a stage 2 tune.

the prices you listed are also WAY over priced! turbo kits can be had for at least $1000 less and most of thoughs parts arent needed as they come with.

tubro timers are not needed as these cars use water cooling along with oil cooling!

the stock clutch and tranny also can handle a lot more then you think! people here have done almost 400/400 till the clutch even started to slip. also the trannys are holding 400's with no problems at all!! 2 people i even know which ACT clutches beating the crap out of it at the drag strip. not sure what that companies charging $2800 for but i know it would cost A LOT more then just $2800 unless there selling junk.

Scott-2011 WRX 335HP 394TQ 93 VF52!
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #35 of 49 Old 09-07-2010, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Ok not to discredit anyone on here but who do I believe lol Synolimit you sound legit and you definitely know what your talkin about but what about this other guy. I am just tryin to look out for myself so if you guys can sort out the BS that would be great.
Again as always thanks a lot!

By the way I am probably going catless and if anyone knows a reason why to keep it catted let me know.
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post #36 of 49 Old 09-08-2010, 12:00 PM
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Look an nasioc. Tons and tons of dynos! One just the other day did back to back runs for stock and stage 2. The stock tune is DANGEROUSLY lean! Why? It has to pass emissions and come off as a fuel saver vehicle with 25mpg highway. After opening intake, exhaust and tune (for closed loop highway driving where you can afford to run lean because your not putting a load or boost on the motor) I'm at 28-29mpg. This is 100% fact and can be found anywhere!

Now injectors and fuel pump on the other hand I don't think your gonna have all the parts to even hit 19-20psi. ATS will not put you over 17psi unless you have all the right parts. I'm at 19.5psi using 90% of my injectors. If I hit 20+ I'll be out of fuel. I'm going E85 so I'll be outta full no matter what because it's used 30% faster than gas.

A ran a cat and now catless. My torque was the same (311), my horse went up 7hp and the biggest thing is the power band. I made 311tq and like 3800rpm, no cat 311tq was at 3200rpm. Now I'm at work and going off memory but the curve was the biggest difference. Catless is cheaper and it doesn't get any louder. I noticed a few decibels at full throttle but know where else.

I promise I wouldn't steer you wrong! Any questions just ask. I've been building this car for me and data to back it up and show everyone else since there's so much "bs" that flys around.

Scott-2011 WRX 335HP 394TQ 93 VF52!
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #37 of 49 Old 09-08-2010, 12:16 PM
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Or just go EWG and it's only catless (at least partially) when you want it to be

I agree with syno, I'm seeing 90% idc's at 19psi on the stock turbo. My next step is to go with ID 1000cc injectors and a pump, but that's only when I go E85 or 20g (probably both at the same time in a few years).

-Chris
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post #38 of 49 Old 09-08-2010, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RcrsWetDream View Post
Or just go EWG and it's only catless (at least partially) when you want it to be

I agree with syno, I'm seeing 90% idc's at 19psi on the stock turbo. My next step is to go with ID 1000cc injectors and a pump, but that's only when I go E85 or 20g (probably both at the same time in a few years).
so your at 90% with stock pump too? goes to show you a pump doesnt do much either (at this point). wonder if anyone has taken the time to calculate the 160lph vs 255vs 245 avo and have a set point for power and boost so people know when they need to buy one.

Scott-2011 WRX 335HP 394TQ 93 VF52!
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #39 of 49 Old 09-08-2010, 07:47 PM
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A larger fuel pump will do NOTHING for IDC. The larger fuel pump will only ensure that the injectors are fed with enough fuel. The issue with the stock pump would be FPDC (fuel pump duty cycle) is running to high for too long. This could cause flow problems especially during long periods of hard driving. So a fuel pump upgrade could be needed depending on your tune and/or driving habits.

The Walbro or the likes can only supply more fuel than your stock unit at a given FP duty cycle and is designed for heavy duty, high performance operation.

The thing that WILL affect IDC is fuel PRESSURE. You can increase your fuel pressure with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. With the increase in fuel pressure you will run a LOWER IDC.

09 WRX K&N Typhoon Walbro 255 SPT BG AEM UEGO Tactrix2.0 XPT Stocks + Winter wheels w/Dunlop WS 3D
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post #40 of 49 Old 09-08-2010, 08:18 PM
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Actually a larger pump can lower your IDC's when combined with an adjustable FPR...when you up your base fuel pressure you are effectively making your injectors function as if they were larger.

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post #41 of 49 Old 09-08-2010, 08:25 PM
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That's what I stated.

Fuel pump alone does nothing for IDC.

09 WRX K&N Typhoon Walbro 255 SPT BG AEM UEGO Tactrix2.0 XPT Stocks + Winter wheels w/Dunlop WS 3D
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post #42 of 49 Old 09-09-2010, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synolimit View Post
so your at 90% with stock pump too? goes to show you a pump doesnt do much either (at this point). wonder if anyone has taken the time to calculate the 160lph vs 255vs 245 avo and have a set point for power and boost so people know when they need to buy one.
Yep, just like the guys above said, if you're not maxing out the injectors yet, the pump will still keep up... Now if you go with 1000cc injectors, you'll probably run out of pump.

That said, I did run some numbers a while back to geta a rough estimate of when you actually need to upgrade your pump... I'll see if I can get those back together, but it's just a lot of conversions.

EDIT: got it. Take it for what it's worth, a simple conversion of an injector's flow per minute converted into necessary liters per hour.


-Chris
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post #43 of 49 Old 09-09-2010, 12:48 PM
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Just wanted to add my 2 cents about going catted or catless. I didn't want to break any laws and won't be going over 400 whp so I went with a divorced catted DP and it's smooth as butter, plus I can still pass emissions without a worry. Catless flow better once you're pushing some serious HP if you plan to do heavy modifications and know what you can get away with there in VA (I have no idea, only know that CA is the worst and I don't live there anymore:P). I haven't heard anything or seen anything about there being much of a difference from catless pipes at around 300 whp, but I do recall something Syno posted from watching the same car do more on a dyno with one. That's the only one time I read that could have robbed a few hp from the catted.

Joe

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post #44 of 49 Old 09-09-2010, 04:02 PM
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I like where this is going. So what is stock fuel pressure and what is the max pressure that the injectors can handle? If the fuel pressure regulator has to be added for future mods, why not add it to the stock fuel system and run the injectors at their max pressure capacity?
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post #45 of 49 Old 09-10-2010, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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At this point I will probably be gettin the fuel pump. I will need it eventually anyway. @ Synolimit: First is your car a DD? If so does the FMIC become a bad thing with all the snow in Akron? I know in the long run the FMIC is more efficient and has more pros than the TMIC but I like to be sure of what I do. Most of thses guys live in places that rarely see snow if at all. Just wonderin how you dealt with it
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