2011 wrx build :) - Page 13 - Subaru WRX Forum
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post #181 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 11:15 AM
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Take into consideration that we are now on winter blend.... Could be the culprit.

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post #182 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 11:35 AM
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i have to disagree with others that 20-21psi is not high though for 93. for winter 93 maybe but not 93 all together. hell i plan on doing 22-24 because the turbo has it in it. at redline it only has about 16 maybe 17.
Let me rephrase that... You can run that much boost with 93 and not knock, but it's to the point where the air you're blowing is just too hot to make any more power. With E85 you do have a bit of a cooling effect so yes, you can run 23-24 psi and see solid gains, but even then much more than 21-22 you see dimishing gains vs going from 18 to 21.

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post #183 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Let me rephrase that... You can run that much boost with 93 and not knock, but it's to the point where the air you're blowing is just too hot to make any more power. With E85 you do have a bit of a cooling effect so yes, you can run 23-24 psi and see solid gains, but even then much more than 21-22 you see dimishing gains vs going from 18 to 21.
right. im just guessing on boost. im glad im BT so i can see just how hot the air is getting for better adjusting.

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http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #184 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 11:47 AM
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Honestly if you send me a 2k to 6500 3rd gear log I can get you some pretty decent dyno #'s. Airboy is great because you can use the same sheet, same specs and same logging road to get pretty apples to apples #'s for your car. The logs you posted came out to like 30hp so there isn't enough data points.

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post #185 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 12:27 PM
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Any idea what total timing is at 4000+ in the load range 3.7ish? It looks like you could shave 1.5 deg off the timing at 3.7+ and probably be in the clear, or richen up the fuel just a tad, I didn't read the entire bajillion page thread, what did he tune you for AFR wise? 11.2ish?
I would be willing to bet with those numbers, (if the maf scaling is correct), he is going to be pulling right at 285ish hp at about 5150 - 5250 boost should be tapering by then on a VF52.

Nevermind...I missed the wideband column, and the total timing, haha!. O details.... Well honestly, those numbers look about right on for a stage 2 tune about a pound more boost than typical but... What octane are you running? The first run, because knock feedback never backed down, it looks like your entire 3.7+ load range for timing needs to drop a couple degrees.
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post #186 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by synolimit View Post

why reset and how? dont i have A/F now with my wideband on the log?
Sorry, I thought you were logging with the AccessPort. Their default monitors log boost.

I see your A/F now. Shouldn't it be a little more consistent. Usually it's a pretty straight line at full throttle if you were to graph it.

It definitely seems like your timing needs to come down as suggested above.

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post #187 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Honestly if you send me a 2k to 6500 3rd gear log I can get you some pretty decent dyno #'s. Airboy is great because you can use the same sheet, same specs and same logging road to get pretty apples to apples #'s for your car. The logs you posted came out to like 30hp so there isn't enough data points.
lol well yeah. but till the knock goes away i cant get over 4900 RPM.

idk what would you guys do? stay off WOT boost till spring final tune or go back sometime or just fix it?

Scott-2011 WRX 335HP 394TQ 93 VF52!
http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #188 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 03:44 PM
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If it was me, it wouldn't take a second guess. Pulling almost 3deg from 4000+ and not backing down is too much, eventually the fine learning will pull that permanently but I still wouldn't be running like that. I would just show him the logs and have him back timing off a bit, or back boost down a bit, chances are it will still knock though because timing will be higher based on the table for a lower load range.
On the fuel mix, not sure why you got a couple spikes as posted above, mine pretty much sits at 11.2 after max load all the way to redline, leaning out just a touch when the load lets up but not much 11.2-11.25 maybe. E85 I run .8 all the way from 3800-redline. It takes some work to get the fuel perfect, usually have to make the open fuel table not very pretty looking to get it right, either that or have a funky looking maf scale curve.
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post #189 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cwinterbower View Post
Any idea what total timing is at 4000+ in the load range 3.7ish? It looks like you could shave 1.5 deg off the timing at 3.7+ and probably be in the clear, or richen up the fuel just a tad, I didn't read the entire bajillion page thread, what did he tune you for AFR wise? 11.2ish?
I would be willing to bet with those numbers, (if the maf scaling is correct), he is going to be pulling right at 285ish hp at about 5150 - 5250 boost should be tapering by then on a VF52.

Nevermind...I missed the wideband column, and the total timing, haha!. O details.... Well honestly, those numbers look about right on for a stage 2 tune about a pound more boost than typical but... What octane are you running? The first run, because knock feedback never backed down, it looks like your entire 3.7+ load range for timing needs to drop a couple degrees.
teach me. what should i look for in RR? there are 3 timings-advance/compensation/knock control. inside them theres like 10 more things. i can see pulling 1.5* out maybe but richening up the fuel not so much. both logs during the knock are about 10.9-11.0. from what i know that seems pretty rich to me.

as for MAF im blow though. from the limp map i had made my tuner said he had to totally redo it. if that means anything. the limp map guy hates BT but my tuner tunes it all the time so im sure its correct. im on Shell winter 93. again i can see timing dropping a little but 13* seems awfully low to me.

EDIT, just checked my friends 11 sti log stage 2, in the same rpm range at 18.5psi he's about 12.5* so maybe its not that low.

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http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #190 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 04:00 PM
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Timing advance is your base timing thats the one you want to mess with unless you want to change the entire table. Knock Compensation, if I am reading that correctly is 'Max Advance' meaning that is what your car is adding on top of 'Timing advance', I re did my entire table, all of them...I changed my 'max advance' table to make more sense so it's more linear, easier to tune. You basically want your timing to be as linear as possible so you don't have timing jumps or dips. But to answer your question you want to lower the timing advance in 'non-cruise' in RR. If it was me I would grab 4000+ at loads 2.7 on drop timing by 1.5 deg and use "Timing Editior" to smooth out your table so it's linear. Not sure how much sense this is making, the compensation table just contains extra data for the ecu to use depending on current conditions, hot intake, hot outside, etc. And looking at fuel ratio again, it's not that bad, but I am a perfectionist so I see a couple lil spikes, probably would mean less than a couple horses on the dyno, but who knows. Nailing down the tune literally takes hours and many many runs.

**And yeah I wouldn't richen up your fuel anymore.
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post #191 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cwinterbower View Post
If it was me, it wouldn't take a second guess. Pulling almost 3deg from 4000+ and not backing down is too much, eventually the fine learning will pull that permanently but I still wouldn't be running like that. I would just show him the logs and have him back timing off a bit, or back boost down a bit, chances are it will still knock though because timing will be higher based on the table for a lower load range.
On the fuel mix, not sure why you got a couple spikes as posted above, mine pretty much sits at 11.2 after max load all the way to redline, leaning out just a touch when the load lets up but not much 11.2-11.25 maybe. E85 I run .8 all the way from 3800-redline. It takes some work to get the fuel perfect, usually have to make the open fuel table not very pretty looking to get it right, either that or have a funky looking maf scale curve.
i agree. everything looks ok to me but the boost. i mean we are targeting 20.11psi but the first log with -2.8* was hitting 21.33psi. however in the knock event it was only hitting 19.0psi at the higher RPM and 20.89psi at the low RPM when it first started. the second log boost never got over 20.6psi and in the knock range it was only 20.6psi tapering to 19.73psi.

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post #192 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 04:07 PM
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Whats the initial and max wastegate duty in that requested torque range? I see what it's actually doing, but curious how close that is to max wastegate duty.
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post #193 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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Timing advance is your base timing thats the one you want to mess with unless you want to change the entire table. Knock Compensation, if I am reading that correctly is 'Max Advance' meaning that is what your car is adding on top of 'Timing advance', I re did my entire table, all of them...I changed my 'max advance' table to make more sense so it's more linear, easier to tune. You basically want your timing to be as linear as possible so you don't have timing jumps or dips. But to answer your question you want to lower the timing advance in 'non-cruise' in RR. If it was me I would grab 4000+ at loads 2.7 on drop timing by 1.5 deg and use "Timing Editior" to smooth out your table so it's linear. Not sure how much sense this is making, the compensation table just contains extra data for the ecu to use depending on current conditions, hot intake, hot outside, etc. And looking at fuel ratio again, it's not that bad, but I am a perfectionist so I see a couple lil spikes, probably would mean less than a couple horses on the dyno, but who knows. Nailing down the tune literally takes hours and many many runs.

**And yeah I wouldn't richen up your fuel anymore.
well heres the table since it doesnt make a lot of sense to me right now. the numbers up top i dont get. like why it only goes to 3.40 when im showing 3.7+ on the log.



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http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f121/2011-wrx-build-31226/
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post #194 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Whats the initial and max wastegate duty in that requested torque range? I see what it's actually doing, but curious how close that is to max wastegate duty.
(EWG with i think 1 bar spring)

umm...




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post #195 of 315 Old 12-08-2011, 04:25 PM
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wow....your ecu is sorta guessing, it has nothing to go on. You really need to have that table changed as you go well beyond 3.4 load, that looks like a stock rom table. Mine along the top row goes to 4.75, but if you do that you will basically have to redo the entire table and all the compensation tables to go with it, I am wondering how many of your other tables are left in the stock form. I mean requested torque is just a number, like your boost table uses etc, (even though I changed mine there as well), but your ecu relies heavily upon g/revs based off your maf, and you are well beyond that table so it's sorta guessing at the values using a set of rules.
Step one, get that top row correct extending load out to at least 4.25 and match all your tables in your timing...What does your open loop fueling look like? It's the same deal.

***NOTE, do not just change the row and not change your timing values to match up, even though it would effectively bring your timing down, you still need to try to match it up as close as possible. Jot down what your timing value is at say 5000rpms and 3.4 g/rev, and then match that number by adjusting the entire table accordingly when you change the top row, minus a couple degrees to stay safe. Don't worry about your timing sub 1.5 g/revs much those need to stay about where they are, by that I mean don't turn them down with the rest of the table, you will still want to use timing editor to smooth this out when done**

Sadly, this is almost a full on tune. I don't mind helping in any way I can, but depends on what you are thinking of doing.
You can get the timing close as I suggested and then run a log, and bump timing up a half degree until you see knock and then back it off about 1.25 degrees if you want max tune.
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