New Launch technique! - Page 2 - Subaru WRX Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
#16 Old 08-21-2008, 11:37 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 924
shamrock is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosc View Post
I disagree completely. The 02-03 and the 04-05 ECU are virtually identical. They both respond very well to a downpipe with or without EM. The years where the downpipe and no EM is a problem is 06+ and that's got nothing to do with the ECU, it has to do with the 2.5L flowing too much for the stock wastegate settings after the mod.

I've seen you post like this before and it's just wrong. The body style change from 03 to 04 was the major difference between those two cars. The tranny actually changed PRIOR to the 04 (midyear 03) and even that was only a small change. The ECUs, and most everything else, are practically identical.

As for your advice requiring a 6-speed to launch, I think that's absurd. The 6-speed ain't indestructible either you know.

BCgirl, what breaks trannys is shock loading. This is the jolt of torque when the clutch first engages. The more torque it has to adjust to, the more likely it is to snap over time. You can reduce shock loading by a) not launching and just going slower (I know, not what you want) and b) being as smooth as possible as you release the clutch from a pre-spun RPM. It's easier to be smooth the lower the RPM so in some sense yes, it is easier on the tranny to launch from 3k than 5k.
Mosc, go over to Nasioc and ask about putting a TBE on an 02-03 compaired to a 04-05 WRX without some sort of EM, and I gaurentee you will get more than enough info on how the ecu was changed from the different models. The 02-03 was much more forgiving than the 04-05. There so much more info on Nasioc than there is on WRXtuners

_Ryan_
2004 Wrb "BUGEYE"
http://www.misubie.com/
shamrock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#17 Old 08-21-2008, 08:32 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
03 CrazyTaxi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 728
Images: 4
03 CrazyTaxi is known to be trustworthy and helpful 03 CrazyTaxi is known to be trustworthy and helpful
Send a message via MSN to 03 CrazyTaxi Send a message via Yahoo to 03 CrazyTaxi
Quote:
Originally Posted by christommy View Post
not trying to thread jack but one of my buddies from a lil car group here in town told me to try using the e-brake, like set the e-brake, then get the clutch to the friction point all while revving at desired launch rpm, and then just releasing the e-brake.

now i know this is very bad for the clutch but has anyone tried this with success??
If by success you mean the slowest I've ever run and red lighting, then yeah. There's too much low end grunt, even from the 2.0L, for the e-brake to hold you in place. Not to mention it's just one more thing you have to pay attention to and one more movement you have to make before the car goes anywhere.

I'm from the school that the fewer movements you have to make to get the car up to speed the better. A 5 speed is better than the 6 speed, but the best is a properly valved and geared automatic.

VF34'd Corvette Killer aka Doug
03 CrazyTaxi is offline  
#18 Old 09-21-2008, 12:45 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 59
tnot is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosc View Post
What you've suggested will give you a nice jolt from the line. It will also bog the motor horribly. Congrats, you've just invented a way to put much more wear on the car while going slower.

I know I'm being a jerk and all but you're not the first person to drag race a manual transmission. There are decades of experience out there that you're spitting in the face of. Try mastering the RIGHT way before coming up with a NEW way.
Well, what's the right way then?
tnot is offline  
#19 Old 12-02-2008, 02:39 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
WRX_Fan_0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 36
WRX_Fan_0717 is an unknown
She needs to invest in LC honestly if she likes drag racing.
It allows you to fully concentrate on disbursing shockload via slipping the clutch. Its the initial 1-2mph to get going that breaks gears, axles, half shafts etc.
The only thing you got to worry about now is blowing some shims from holding it to long.

Hmm just don't do a WRX_Fan blow an axle every other time up.

I'm trying to hit the magical 1.5 60 ft. lol
I launch at 10+psi and closer to 6k rpms by the time the clutch is clamped. So far i got a 1.61.

I had over 50 drag launches with a stock 02 tranny w/4 different turbos including a 20g. Broke a couple axles and that's it. (not advising by any means it's safe to do)

The gears still looked decent when they came out, all thanks to LC. Use the clutch to disperse shockload and be content to replace some very very expensive tranny components.

Meth'd, EWG'd, Str8 Cut PPG'd, 20G'd Bug-i, 354awhp and 315tq SAE 5 Corrected 50/50 meth @ 19-20psi.
WRX_Fan_0717 is offline  
#20 Old 12-02-2008, 02:49 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
WRX_Fan_0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 36
WRX_Fan_0717 is an unknown
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnot View Post
Well, what's the right way then?

The right way is to not launch it stock honestly.

But, if you were going to stab me with a fork.............

Try to concentrate mainly on minimizing the initial take off shockload by sidestepping the clutch. Slip it enough to get off the line with a little speed and maintaining rpms enough not to bog. Then once you start to move (1-2mph) more or less drop the clutch. After you drop the clutch is where you should really get moving. The whole sidestep process is mainly a means to get you off the line gently as possible and keep you car form bogging. Your going to loose .2 seconds from the get to launch a stock AWD car carefully period.

So imagine first goal is to get car moving briskly without letting it bog. Once your moving you can make up for what you just lost.

So hard to type it and takes 2 seconds to show someone.

Meth'd, EWG'd, Str8 Cut PPG'd, 20G'd Bug-i, 354awhp and 315tq SAE 5 Corrected 50/50 meth @ 19-20psi.
WRX_Fan_0717 is offline  
#21 Old 12-02-2008, 03:48 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
SuBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 731
Images: 3
SuBeast is on thin ice
Garage
Send a message via AIM to SuBeast
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX_Fan_0717 View Post
Try to concentrate mainly on minimizing the initial take off shockload by sidestepping the clutch. Slip it enough to get off the line with a little speed and maintaining rpms enough not to bog. Then once you start to move (1-2mph) more or less drop the clutch. After you drop the clutch is where you should really get moving. The whole sidestep process is mainly a means to get you off the line gently as possible and keep you car form bogging. Your going to loose .2 seconds from the get to launch a stock AWD car carefully period.

So imagine first goal is to get car moving briskly without letting it bog. Once your moving you can make up for what you just lost.

So hard to type it and takes 2 seconds to show someone.
I understood what you meant, and through extensive researching of my own, i've found a ton of people that say that technique is the best pretty much on most/any car. Crap. I can't find the video on Youtube, but theres one I recently saw of Keiichi Tsuchiya on a circuit with a Toyota AE86 and he does this launch against a Honda Civic EK9....
Yay I found it! Okay, in the first link he does it @ 1:20 into the video.
YouTube - AE86 vs EK9 Initial D
The 2nd link he does it @ 1:42 into the video. -Fast forward if you like.
YouTube - AE86 vs DC2

If I'm correct, that technique is the one you are trying to explain.

FAST
RELIABLE
CHEAP
Pick 2
2006 STi
1990 Civic time-attack project
1990 Toyota Hilux - daily
SuBeast is offline  
#22 Old 12-02-2008, 04:01 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
WRX_Fan_0717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 36
WRX_Fan_0717 is an unknown
Exactly

Second was a better example. I think their intention is more for "no wheelspin" but same deal.

Meth'd, EWG'd, Str8 Cut PPG'd, 20G'd Bug-i, 354awhp and 315tq SAE 5 Corrected 50/50 meth @ 19-20psi.
WRX_Fan_0717 is offline  
#23 Old 12-02-2008, 04:20 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
SuBeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 731
Images: 3
SuBeast is on thin ice
Garage
Send a message via AIM to SuBeast
Yeah because it was a RWD, and yea the 2nd vid you can see it better. It's otherwise known as riding the clutch. I've seen this attempted and failed several times before, resulting in a way slower launch, but when done correctly, it is probably the best launch for a WRX while keeping your tranny as safe as launching can be.

I've seen too many AWD drivers (especially WRX's) go out on the track and redline it and then dump the clutch thinking that's the fastest way to launch. On a track, the road surface is WAY stickier than on the street, so therefore they bog like crazy. I've seen them all, WRX, Evo's, STi's, DSM's, etc. I've only seen ONE clutch dump be a succesfull launch on a cream-ish bugeye. Dunno the mods, but it ran a 13.6 with a redline clutch dump after running various ~14.5's with a lower RPM clutch dump. -- Still not recommended, I have no clue if he had any modifications to the tranny.

FAST
RELIABLE
CHEAP
Pick 2
2006 STi
1990 Civic time-attack project
1990 Toyota Hilux - daily
SuBeast is offline  
#24 Old 03-02-2009, 03:34 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
Wutangjn12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 64
Wutangjn12 is an unknown
from my experience, the best launch i have ever gotten was from bringing the rpms to 3k-4k and then bliping the throttle. simultaneously, as u blip it, ease off the clutch and drop it once your moving. works really good man.
Wutangjn12 is offline  
#25 Old 03-03-2009, 04:04 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,245
WRXKidid775 is more helpful than not
There are 1000 different threds on here on how to launch a wrx...

I agree with shamrock on the 02/03 vs. 04/05 issue with EM and TBE

Robby
02 rex is gone.
I defected to an evo :)
Evo is gone :(
Now I got nothing.
WRXKidid775 is offline  
#26 Old 03-03-2009, 08:42 AM
WRXtuners Member
 
turmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 4,371
Images: 6
turmic is a WRX expert worth listening to turmic is a WRX expert worth listening to turmic is a WRX expert worth listening to turmic is a WRX expert worth listening to
Send a message via AIM to turmic
04-05s have some open loop and closed loop fuel requirements that the 02-03s don't have. That's programmed into the ECU. That's it...as far as I know.
turmic is offline  
#27 Old 03-03-2009, 06:06 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
Kjott21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 763
Kjott21 is known to be trustworthy and helpful Kjott21 is known to be trustworthy and helpful Kjott21 is known to be trustworthy and helpful
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosc View Post
I disagree completely. The 02-03 and the 04-05 ECU are virtually identical. They both respond very well to a downpipe with or without EM. The years where the downpipe and no EM is a problem is 06+ and that's got nothing to do with the ECU, it has to do with the 2.5L flowing too much for the stock wastegate settings after the mod.

I've seen you post like this before and it's just wrong. The body style change from 03 to 04 was the major difference between those two cars. The tranny actually changed PRIOR to the 04 (midyear 03) and even that was only a small change. The ECUs, and most everything else, are practically identical.
There is a longer delay between the OL/CL fueling on the 04/05 cars that wasn't there on the 02/03 ECU's. It has nothing to do with the wastegate settings.
From the Unabomber's EM FAQ: Engine Management FAQ: Read if you are thinking of buying one! - NASIOC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
What Subarus NEED engine management? While every Subaru will benefit from engine management, the 04+ turbo models (except STI) "require" it. The reason for this is the EPA mandated greater restrictions on ECUs for 2004+ and allow manufacturers to exclude one model. Subaru chose the STI as the exclusion, so the restrictions are not on the STI. The restrictions have to do with the open and closed loop fueling. To put the restrictions in a nutshell without being technical, there is a delay between open and closed loop fueling that can allow your 04+ Subaru to run lean during this crossover point in how your car gets fuel. Lean is dangerous as it produces detonation which is the #1 factor is blown pistons. In stock configuration, 04+ turbo models are fine, but modifications such as exhaust work or higher really necessitate the use of engine management as those mods cause the fueling issue to rear it's head. Yes, you can run certain mods for a short time until you get engine management, but you should never kid yourself on 04+ turbo models that bolt on modifications are fine without engine management.

My name is Ken and I am a HP Junkie.
Kjott21 is offline  
#28 Old 03-03-2009, 08:09 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
VD5505's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Iowa
Posts: 905
Images: 6
VD5505 is known to be trustworthy and helpful VD5505 is known to be trustworthy and helpful VD5505 is known to be trustworthy and helpful
Send a message via AIM to VD5505 Send a message via MSN to VD5505
well some how i dont know how my tranny held up with my style of launching but i would leave the line over 6500 RPM's and i was getting 1.5's 60ft times in my WRX and with the stock TD04 my best time was a 12.84 at 107mph, but im used to a trans brake in our drag car ha
VD5505 is offline  
#29 Old 12-20-2009, 10:43 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 6
silvburu is an unknown
when my 02 wrx was stock i launched it at 6000 rpm and it launched real hard and left lines. i did it again like 5 minutes after and blew up my transmission. wrx transmissions are like glass so if you really wanna be safe and you have the money upgrade the tranny. if you cant afford it then i suggest launch it rarely and just have fun downshifting and getting thrown into the seat instead.
silvburu is offline  
#30 Old 12-20-2009, 11:10 PM
WRXtuners Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 454
Images: 1
VisiX is a helpful contributing member
This thread was from August 08, then December 08, then March 09... why does it keep coming back?

Ryan
2009 STi - Cobb Stage 2
VisiX is offline  
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On