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-   -   The time finally came...motor build! (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f103/time-finally-came-motor-build-31263/)

bmoney 08-29-2011 06:37 PM

The time finally came...motor build!
 
I knew it was inevitable but didn't think it would happen so soon.

Link to my turbo upgrade thread [URL="http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f75/turbo-upgrade-please-help-30748/index6.html#post265110"]http://http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f75/turbo-upgrade-please-help-30748/index6.html#post265110[/URL]

Brief background info...a month or so after my turbo upgrade and tune I started experiencing a rough idle after being wot. Not to long after the rough idle i would have a cylinder 2 misfire cel. Talked to my tuner and we got my car idling like a charm.

The second week of August I started having cylinder 2 & 3 misfires and here's my story from there...I was driving to a brunch for work (8/16) and was running behind and I must admit was driving fast/aggressive. Anyways I wasn't paying attention to my tach and bounced off my rev limiter in 4th gear...bad i know :( I came to a stoplight and she was misfiring like crazy. Fortunately my tuner was in the area and after my work meeting drove over to his shop.

The drive over there was horrible as I started having rod knock as well as my cylinders misfiring every 5 secs. When i made it to Mike's shop he checked it out and told me what I already knew...that it didn't look good at all. Haven't taken the motor apart so don't know exactly what is wrong but thinking its a ringland or rod bearing?

On to the good news :D...getting my motor fully built as well as a little drivetrain work and this is what I have so far and want to know what you guys think.

[B]Short Block:[/B]
Stock Case Halves
Darton Sleeves
Nitrate Treated Crankshaft
Cosworth Main Bearing Set Size 1
Cosworth Rod Bearing Set Size 1
Cosworth Forged Piston Set 100mm 8:2:1
Cosworth Piston Ring Set 100mm Bore
Eagle Rods

[B]Heads[/B]
Porting & Polishing Heads
Brian Crower Camshafts (Intake: 272, Exhaust: 272)
Brian Crower Retainer Set 1.0
Brian Crower 1mm Oversized Intake Valves
Brian Crower 1mm Oversized Exhaust Valves

[B]Turbo[/B]
Depending on the status of my turbo I'm thinking about upgrading from the Dom 2.5 to the Dom 3.

[B]Drivetrain[/B]
ACT SB5-HDSS clutch kit
Stoptech Powerslot Rotors
Hawk HP+ pads

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated! The build should hopefully start next week but want to finalize everything first.

[B]EDIT:[/B]
My overall future power goal is 500-550 whp. I want to turn my car into a weekend warrior/track car and not be a DD anymore.

My goal with this thread is to get as much great feedback as possible

newtothegame 08-29-2011 07:06 PM

So a built motor, a stronger clutch, and no built tranny? And you want to step up to maybe even a bigger turbo? Just something to think about.

psinuse 08-29-2011 08:19 PM

[quote=bmoney;266863]I knew it was inevitable but didn't think it would happen so soon.

Link to my turbo upgrade thread [URL="http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f75/turbo-upgrade-please-help-30748/index6.html#post265110"]http://http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f75/turbo-upgrade-please-help-30748/index6.html#post265110[/URL]

Brief background info...a month or so after my turbo upgrade and tune I started experiencing a rough idle after being wot. Not to long after the rough idle i would have a cylinder 2 misfire cel. Talked to my tuner and we got my car idling like a charm.

The second week of August I started having cylinder 2 & 3 misfires and here's my story from there...I was driving to a brunch for work (8/16) and was running behind and I must admit was driving fast/aggressive. Anyways I wasn't paying attention to my tach and bounced off my rev limiter in 4th gear...bad i know :( I came to a stoplight and she was misfiring like crazy. Fortunately my tuner was in the area and after my work meeting drove over to his shop.

The drive over there was horrible as I started having rod knock as well as my cylinders misfiring every 5 secs. When i made it to Mike's shop he checked it out and told me what I already knew...that it didn't look good at all. Haven't taken the motor apart so don't know exactly what is wrong but thinking its a ringland or rod bearing?

On to the good news :D...getting my motor fully built as well as a little drivetrain work and this is what I have so far and want to know what you guys think.

[B]Short Block:[/B]
Stock Case Halves
[COLOR="Lime"][SIZE="5"]Darton EJ255 & EJ257 Sleeves
Nitrate Treated Crankshaft
Cosworth Main Bearing Set Size 1
Cosworth Rod Bearing Set Size 1
Cosworth Forged Piston Set 100mm 8:2:1
Cosworth Piston Ring Set 100mm Bore [/SIZE][/COLOR]
Eagle Rods

[B]Heads[/B]
Porting & Polishing Heads
[COLOR="Lime"][SIZE="5"]Brian Crower Camshafts (Intake: 272, Exhaust: 272)
Brian Crower Retainer Set 1.0
Brian Crower 1mm Oversized Intake Valves
Brian Crower 1mm Oversized Exhaust Valves [/SIZE][/COLOR]

[B]Turbo[/B]
Depending on the status of my turbo I'm thinking about upgrading from the Dom 2.5 to the Dom 3.

[B]Drivetrain[/B]
ACT SB5-HDSS clutch kit
Stoptech Powerslot Rotors
Hawk HP+ pads

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated! The build should hopefully start next week but want to finalize everything first.[/quote]

Things to note are in green...What are your HP goals, because a lot of this stuff is a waste...Personally I'd avoid all Cossie and BC stuff...

bmoney 08-29-2011 09:00 PM

[quote=newtothegame;266864]So a built motor, a stronger clutch, and no built tranny? And you want to step up to maybe even a bigger turbo? Just something to think about.[/quote]

Yes I know and I completely hear you about the tranny thats why I'm going to get a conservative tune for the time being but I'm definitely going to be upgrading my tranny in the near future.

bmoney 08-29-2011 09:12 PM

[quote=psinuse;266869]Things to note are in green...What are your HP goals, because a lot of this stuff is a waste...Personally I'd avoid all Cossie and BC stuff...[/quote]

My HP goals are going to be 500-550 whp. I'm going to upgrade to a GT35R around the same time I upgrade the transmission...that's why I'm sleeving the block

I'm more than likely going to go with the Kelford 272's as I've heard great things about them whereas I've heard good/bad things about the BC...I listed them as I wanted to get feedback.

Why would you avoid Cosworth parts? What internals would you use?

My goal with this thread is to get as much great feedback as possible

turmic 08-29-2011 09:26 PM

Damn man, sorry to hear the problems. My engine is being picked up by my tuner this friday. I can't wait to get it back. Its been taking forever. It sound like your just about following my foot steps. LOL, my tuner is upgrading me to Dom 3.0 should be a XTR also. I have head work and cams done on mine as well. My tuner used GSC stage 1 cams. But, my goals are not as high as yours. 375-400whp is good enough for me...on pump of course. They used new iconel valves for my heads and all sorts of fun other stuff.

psinuse 08-29-2011 09:36 PM

Cosworth was bought by another company about 2 years ago or so and have been turning out poor products as of late, mostly cams.
Kelford is a excellent choice and I highly recommend them. As far as pistons, I am bias, but I use Wossner and have had very good results with them. Less piston slap on cold starts and smoother idle in my experience.
What size exhaust housing are you planning on running with that GT35R? Also do you plan to run race gas to hit 500whp?

bmoney 08-29-2011 09:40 PM

[quote=turmic;266883]Damn man, sorry to hear the problems. My engine is being picked up by my tuner this friday. I can't wait to get it back. Its been taking forever. It sound like your just about following my foot steps. LOL, my tuner is upgrading me to Dom 3.0 should be a XTR also. I have head work and cams done on mine as well. My tuner used GSC stage 1 cams. But, my goals are not as high as yours. 375-400whp is good enough for me...on pump of course. They used new iconel valves for my heads and all sorts of fun other stuff.[/quote]

Ya man it really sucked but am excited to build my motor even though its going to cost quite the penny and don't have a mode of transportation at the time being. lol ya i read your thread the other day about blowing your motor, of which i'm sorry to hear but looks like you're going to be a very happy camper here in the very near future :D, and we definitely are taking very similar steps with our build.

Any suggestions you would have for me?

turmic 08-29-2011 09:52 PM

He runs E85. But, since I had shavings from the bearings ran through out my motor. My tuner started out with new everything for the most part. Since the shavings even got in my turbo.

New EJ257 shortblock
Carillo Pro-SA lightweight rods
ACL Race bearings
CP pistons that are side coated
Nitride crankshaft

Used my existing Heads just:
reshaped
ported and polished
new valvesprings, retainers, seals, and inconel valves

GSC S1 Cams

OEM Master Gasket Set

OEM Oil Pump

Timing belt and tensioners etc

OEM Oil filter assembly

OEM Oil pan

Dom 3.0 (should be a XTR for rediculously cheap upgrade)


Yeah, some of that is completly unnecessary. But, since its shavings in the oil system...its all getting replaced beyond my heads. Which were tanked and cleaned.

Nevermind I have to break the engine in and then get it retuned for all the goodies. Which before it gets retuned my tuner is installing a custom FMIC with one of their IC cores. My tuner claims they run the highest quality cores out there. Garrett or Custom made ones just for them. Which they have been making EVO FMICs for a while and are shipping quite a bit of FMICs for EVOs everytime I am in there.

Research and do what you can afford or think is necessary. My car isn't going to be balls to the wall. So, my choices may or not work for you. Balls to the wall should probably have a sleeved engine or a closed deck engine. That's one thing I think you need that I might be able to squeeze by without.

PS: This is my estimate...things might have changed once they got to the work. This doesn't include the break in oil and filter with a change of oil after its broke in and new filter. Cheap...compared to the rest. We'll see what happens when its all back together.

bmoney 08-29-2011 11:35 PM

[quote=psinuse;266887]Cosworth was bought by another company about 2 years ago or so and have been turning out poor products as of late, mostly cams.
Kelford is a excellent choice and I highly recommend them. As far as pistons, I am bias, but I use Wossner and have had very good results with them. Less piston slap on cold starts and smoother idle in my experience.
What size exhaust housing are you planning on running with that GT35R? Also do you plan to run race gas to hit 500whp?[/quote]

I didn't know that about Cosworth...thanks for filling me though!

I'll definitely take a look at the Wossner..thanks!

I plan on going .82 AR with a 3" exhaust housing and running E85.

bmoney 08-30-2011 12:21 AM

[quote=turmic;266894]He runs E85. But, since I had shavings from the bearings ran through out my motor. My tuner started out with new everything for the most part. Since the shavings even got in my turbo.

New EJ257 shortblock
Carillo Pro-SA lightweight rods
ACL Race bearings
CP pistons that are side coated
Nitride crankshaft

Used my existing Heads just:
reshaped
ported and polished
new valvesprings, retainers, seals, and inconel valves

GSC S1 Cams

OEM Master Gasket Set

OEM Oil Pump

Timing belt and tensioners etc

OEM Oil filter assembly

OEM Oil pan

Dom 3.0 (should be a XTR for rediculously cheap upgrade)


Yeah, some of that is completly unnecessary. But, since its shavings in the oil system...its all getting replaced beyond my heads. Which were tanked and cleaned.

Nevermind I have to break the engine in and then get it retuned for all the goodies. Which before it gets retuned my tuner is installing a custom FMIC with one of their IC cores. My tuner claims they run the highest quality cores out there. Garrett or Custom made ones just for them. Which they have been making EVO FMICs for a while and are shipping quite a bit of FMICs for EVOs everytime I am in there.

Research and do what you can afford or think is necessary. My car isn't going to be balls to the wall. So, my choices may or not work for you. Balls to the wall should probably have a sleeved engine or a closed deck engine. That's one thing I think you need that I might be able to squeeze by without.

PS: This is my estimate...things might have changed once they got to the work. This doesn't include the break in oil and filter with a change of oil after its broke in and new filter. Cheap...compared to the rest. We'll see what happens when its all back together.[/quote]

You have an awesome setup can't wait to see what your number are!

Are you using the OEM valvesprings and retainers? What inconnel valves are you using? How do you like the CP pistons?

I have no idea what FMIC to go with...i was thinking about the perrin but then was thinking about going custom like your doing? Do you have an input on the perrin?

I honestly haven't completely made my mind up whether I'm going to go balls to the wall or take a similar route you are and keep my car as a DD.

How much boost are you planning on running with the dom 3?

If I don't sleeve the block, I was thinking about getting the TIC fully assembled d-spec struts with the swift spec-R springs

brfatal 08-30-2011 06:34 AM

Get rid of everything Brian Crower from your list. The BC cams do nothing but give you a poor idle. They don't make power. And their valvetrains are known to fail.

<--- is running GSC cams

turmic 08-30-2011 09:10 AM

No...my valvesprings are going to be upgraded to handle a raised rpm limit. So, I am assuming the rest of the stuff is good enough because I don't hear anyone saying they had to upgrade the retainers and seals. Just want new to complement the other new parts.

CP Pistons are known to handle a good deal of horsepower. I'm sure some other people use other pistons at a high horsepower that might idle smoother. Which is why I am getting my CPs sidecoated...it kills some of the piston slap. That's the only slight problem with CPs and with side coating its not that bad.

Which exact valvetrain my builder went with is not quite known to me. But, I am assuming its good because this guy builds engines for other SCCA road racers and rally. He is a old aquaintance of my tuner from back in the day when my tuner was still road racing. He agreed to build engines for my tuner but does not want to make his name public. Chad (my tuner) said he already got two EVO engines back from him and they ran the smoothest that he has heard after break in. Chad has used every big name engine out there on EVO from Buschur, AMS, and others. So far he said that this new guys engines run so smooth on the dyno after break in that he prefers his engines now over other engines.

My tuner gets IC cores in from Garrett and another place that makes high end custom IC cores. They make all the pipes because they have Brent who fabricates, welds, and does some metal work. So....I'd probably get TurboXS FMIC if you can't get another good brand name FMIC. They are known to be pretty good. My tuner just says the cores he gets are normally better than the crap that is on the internet.

How much boost that I am going to run will depend on my tuner. He normally tunes for a good useable powerband for driveability. But, I'd like to think I can get that with 375 or 400whp with my mods on 93 pump.

psinuse 08-30-2011 10:14 AM

[quote=turmic;266924]No...my valvesprings are going to be upgraded to handle a raised rpm limit. So, I am assuming the rest of the stuff is good enough because I don't hear anyone saying they had to upgrade the retainers and seals. Just want new to complement the other new parts.

CP Pistons are known to handle a good deal of horsepower. I'm sure some other people use other pistons at a high horsepower that might idle smoother. Which is why I am getting my CPs sidecoated...it kills some of the piston slap. That's the only slight problem with CPs and with side coating its not that bad.

Which exact valvetrain my builder went with is not quite known to me. But, I am assuming its good because this guy builds engines for other SCCA road racers and rally. He is a old aquaintance of my tuner from back in the day when my tuner was still road racing. He agreed to build engines for my tuner but does not want to make his name public. Chad (my tuner) said he already got two EVO engines back from him and they ran the smoothest that he has heard after break in. Chad has used every big name engine out there on EVO from Buschur, AMS, and others. So far he said that this new guys engines run so smooth on the dyno after break in that he prefers his engines now over other engines.

My tuner gets IC cores in from Garrett and another place that makes high end custom IC cores. They make all the pipes because they have Brent who fabricates, welds, and does some metal work. So....I'd probably get TurboXS FMIC if you can't get another good brand name FMIC. They are known to be pretty good. My tuner just says the cores he gets are normally better than the crap that is on the internet.

How much boost that I am going to run will depend on my tuner. He normally tunes for a good useable powerband for driveability. But, I'd like to think I can get that with 375 or 400whp with my mods on 93 pump.[/quote]

I'd be willing to bet the guy building those motors balances every piece individually then assemblies everything and balances as a whole even more. A smooth idling motor has very well balanced internals...Ask me how I know?:D

bmoney: Wossners come with coated side skirts and I have the tops tin coated. CP's are a good pistons as well, but again I am bias.

turmic 08-30-2011 11:28 AM

I don't doubt it Keith, its taking a long time. But, if his reputation is as good as I've heard. Then it'll be worth it.

Even Chris got his pistons top and side coated. Like I said...there are options out there.


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