does anybody know what a tumbler generator valve delete is and what it can do for my car.... http://www.crawfordperformance.com/products/db_cat.cgi?id=3 thanks for the help i really appreciate it
There are a modest amount of gains to be had depending on your level of modification.The TVG's are a significant restriction.A stock wrx can easily see a 10whp gain across the powerband,better throttle responce,low end torque and an increase in the rpm range.A VF22 at least around a 20whp gain.soobaroo227 said:It takes the tumble generator valves out of your intake manifold. This will make it pretty much like a JDM intake manifold. The TGV is there for emissions and supposedly low end torque. There really aren't any huge gains from doing this mod to support spending the money on it unless you are absoultely trying to get everything out of your motor that you can. Also, if you did do it, you would have to get your ecu tuned for it or your car would not run good at all.
Not buying that at all.ManicsWrX said:Slowboyracing claimed they made 100 HP on removing them off the STI....wonder how tru this is
Not true at all.Thats like saying porting the heads on a stock WRX or putting a catless up pipe will do nothing.Removing a restriction=good stuff happeningLiL Shoaf said:The only real time that it's worth the time, effort, and money to remove the tumblers is in a High Boost, Highly Modified Engine.. I still even have mine in and I am running a GT35R at 24 PSI... I am debating on removing them, but have not decided yet..
I'll buy that for people with little wrenching skills,but for people with mechanical know how tumbler deletes=free.Not much to it removing the butterflies and removing the divider plate.But your right,for some its not quite as easy as installing an up-pipe or catback.Definatly a mod to do after the basic bolt ons are done.LiL Shoaf said:dumdum is right, removing restriction is always good, however the gains achieved by removing the Tumblers is hardly worth the time and money in moderate to low power, low boost applications.. Money and time can be much better spent in other places on 200-300hp cars that will gain much higher results...
I myself have not put mine on yet.I have been closely watching a couple of threads over in NASIOC to see how its working out for others and the gains they are getting at different power levels.The main thing is in order to delete the TVG's correctly a custom tune is advisable to make sure your AFR's are good.Ecutek cannot remove the CEL for TVG's so you would have to use the APS or modify the factory ones.For Protune and Utec you can use the Ver7 risers ($100) as they(protune/utec) can remove the CEL.Alot of it is peole moding the stock ones are not putting the sensors/motors back on correctly.The higher the power level the more gain you will see with these.Sometimes in some vehicles the TVG's are not 100% open.They reach an 80-85 degree angle after cold start.Terrible restriction.LiL Shoaf said:DumDum, did you get a dyno pre and post? i am curious to see if you netted the gains that APS claims they get in there "bolt On" delete kit found here:
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/wrx/my01/fuel_systems/tdi_01.htm
Also, I have heard a lot of horror stories about guys that have tampered with the stock set up and caused some major issues with the ECU after that not reading the valve placement properly and the car running like crap...
I agree. !Thumbs UpLiL Shoaf said:The only real time that it's worth the time, effort, and money to remove the tumblers is in a High Boost, Highly Modified Engine.. I still even have mine in and I am running a GT35R at 24 PSI... I am debating on removing them, but have not decided yet..
LiL Shoaf said:After a some what lengthly discussion with "RON" from Axis Racing I can concur with dumdum on the issue of simply removing the Butterfly's.. It's "easy" according to Ron.. Beware however that the bottom of the bolts are "Peened" over so they can not work lose and fall into the motor. One must grin the ends of the screws down prior to removal or the heads will round out.. I however am still debating on purchasing an aftermarket setup simply because the aftermarket setup "Should" flow more air then the stockers with the butterfly's removed.. With my Custom Cams, over-sized valves, and port and polish I want every component to flow to it's highest potential... !Thumbs Up
Ver 7 risers ($75-100) or a Ver 8 intake manifold.Way cheaper than buying the APS units ($350) This guy usually has this stuff even if its not listed in his website. www.iaperformance.comLiL Shoaf said:After a some what lengthly discussion with "RON" from Axis Racing I can concur with dumdum on the issue of simply removing the Butterfly's.. It's "easy" according to Ron.. Beware however that the bottom of the bolts are "Peened" over so they can not work lose and fall into the motor. One must grin the ends of the screws down prior to removal or the heads will round out.. I however am still debating on purchasing an aftermarket setup simply because the aftermarket setup "Should" flow more air then the stockers with the butterfly's removed.. With my Custom Cams, over-sized valves, and port and polish I want every component to flow to it's highest potential... !Thumbs Up
Well a TGV delete would do ya good but it will make your cold starts a little harder...your car is going to be a beast when you are done with it for sure.ManicsWrX said:I am getting some work done here with in the next month....and the shop asked me if I wanted the valves removed off of the wrx....Safe? hmmm this seems like something that will cause the vehicle to be unreliable.
ity: oorme: Im just confused damn you Nick lol you got me spending money on that turbo and Im taking care in b4 the turbo to get the paint job done "I should just pay it off b4 i do ANYMORE work lol"
do cams or oversized valves count as added displacement?LiL Shoaf said:After a some what lengthly discussion with "RON" from Axis Racing I can concur with dumdum on the issue of simply removing the Butterfly's.. It's "easy" according to Ron.. Beware however that the bottom of the bolts are "Peened" over so they can not work lose and fall into the motor. One must grin the ends of the screws down prior to removal or the heads will round out.. I however am still debating on purchasing an aftermarket setup simply because the aftermarket setup "Should" flow more air then the stockers with the butterfly's removed.. With my Custom Cams, over-sized valves, and port and polish I want every component to flow to it's highest potential... !Thumbs Up
mosc said:do cams or oversized valves count as added displacement?
No, Cams and Oversized Valves do not count as added Displacement. My block is still a 2.5L no matter what Cams or Valves I bolt on it.. The aggressive Cam profiles with added lift and the 1mm oversized Valves only allow more air into the motor faster.. They do not change the displacement of the motor.. Sure, they can allow higher boost numbers faster but not added displacement....mosc said:do cams or oversized valves count as added displacement?