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-   -   Strength of the EJ20G (http://www.wrxtuners.com/forums/f103/strength-ej20g-20272/)

rkaid 09-19-2007 04:13 AM

Strength of the EJ20G
 
Hey Gang,

Sorry first post is a little long, but it seems you US guys have a lot more experience in Suby hardware then us Aussies :shhh:

I have a mate with a 91 Liberty (you guys call em Legacy's) with a EJ20G, which is also in the '94 GC8 WRX. It comes with a water > air IC.

Its got VF22@18psi making 180@rwkw's (all 4) Zhaust, intake ECU etc.
180kw is I guess about 340bhp ((180x1.4) x 1.34)

My question is what types of power you guys see on these open deck blocks before doing pistons etc. Assume its tuned right, and wont see any cylinder pressure spikes from detonation, when do people have issues?
I think the VF22 is too small, and thinking bout a Garret 500-550hp turbo, or Trust TD06, but wondering if maybe theres no point on the stock motor if something will let go soon. I come from a Nissan world, where even a SR20 should take 280-300rwkw in stock form for a long while... but this motors got 150,000km (93,000m) on it :beatentod

Any assistance thoughts, flames, etc would be massively appreciated!!!
Thanks!!!!!

Michael

mosc 09-19-2007 06:54 PM

most of the expertise here is on USDM models. We don't have experience with the older turbo models (although we did get a turbo legacy way back when). You might get a bite here but I'd try to find a aussie forum.

nick4592 09-19-2007 07:04 PM

I think that the EJ20G already has forged Rods so it already can handle a bit more than the USDM model...so all you have to worry about is crushing a piston...if you all want to break 400whp on a EJ20 I would recommend 20G, GT12, or a GT30 with Methanol Injection. What type of Engine Management are you all using?

rkaid 09-20-2007 01:14 AM

[QUOTE=nick4592;169707]I think that the EJ20G already has forged Rods so it already can handle a bit more than the USDM model...so all you have to worry about is crushing a piston...if you all want to break 400whp on a EJ20 I would recommend 20G, GT12, or a GT30 with Methanol Injection. What type of Engine Management are you all using?[/QUOTE]

ECU is a NZ made unit called a ECUlink. It is a signal bending piggy back, but tuning and my turbo choice to move the air we want isn't the issue. Its how much power people are making from a (94 WRX) motor that im looking for.

Thank for comments

king723 09-20-2007 02:55 AM

hey off topic but you have a skyline r32 right? must be nice to get skylines where you live. how many people over there run the rb30 block with the rb26 heads?

rkaid 09-20-2007 03:07 AM

[QUOTE=king723;169793]hey off topic but you have a skyline r32 right? must be nice to get skylines where you live. how many people over there run the rb30 block with the rb26 heads?[/QUOTE]
Yah, the GTR. Id chew my leg off if i couldn’t own my dream car, you guys can import and compliance them as well though yes?
Couple dozen people that i know run em. The extra torque and ability to spool larger turbos is fantastic, but many (incl me) think it takes a little away from the originality. Not many people buzz the setups up over 9k RPM due to the inertia difference. I like the idea of sticking to 2.6.. (maybe a HKS 2.8 kit, but they're pretty $$$)

king723 09-20-2007 03:29 AM

sweet man thats awsome..for real though the skyline is seriously my dream car and i will own one even if i can only park it in my garage. Its very bad to have one here in cali because of all the laws you cannot legaly own one here and drive it on the streets. I have however owned well half a skyline haha. I had a nissan 240sx and i swapped with with a RB20 actually out of a cefiero(sp?) from australia.. I would give my pinky toe to own a skyline preferably an r34 or the r32! Yeah ive never seen the hybrid block but ive heard of people running them on my 240sx forum. A new company made an all bolt on kit to run the awd on a 240sx but still not a skyline in anyway just at heart..

im not sure about all the states but for awhile i was hearing that we could only DOT appove the R33 in the states and ive never been a fan of that model.. Its shitty though because you need to crash something like 3 skylines to make 1 legal. Motorex was doing it for awhile but he is in jail now and the company is closed.

rkaid 09-20-2007 04:04 AM

[QUOTE=king723;169799]sweet man thats awsome..for real though the skyline is seriously my dream car and i will own one even if i can only park it in my garage. Its very bad to have one here in cali because of all the laws you cannot legaly own one here and drive it on the streets. I have however owned well half a skyline haha. I had a nissan 240sx and i swapped with with a RB20 actually out of a cefiero(sp?) from australia.. I would give my pinky toe to own a skyline preferably an r34 or the r32! Yeah ive never seen the hybrid block but ive heard of people running them on my 240sx forum. A new company made an all bolt on kit to run the awd on a 240sx but still not a skyline in anyway just at heart..

im not sure about all the states but for awhile i was hearing that we could only DOT appove the R33 in the states and ive never been a fan of that model.. Its shitty though because you need to crash something like 3 skylines to make 1 legal. Motorex was doing it for awhile but he is in jail now and the company is closed.[/QUOTE]

Well off topic, but yah, I almost got 180SX (240) with a 20 as well, but figured the extra weight would kill the handling. Serious!!?? A 180SX with the 4wd would be insane, hell, it would be lighter then the 1530kg of a R32. That 350Z with the BNR32 running gear looks insane too.
Tough gig about not being able to get the R's on the road. Maybe move to Canada :eek:

rkaid 09-21-2007 11:51 PM

*BUMP BUMP*

No ones ever known anyone to blow a EJ20G motor? Most forums are full of story's (unfortunately hehehe)
Surely people have crack a ring land or two, split a liner, spat a head gasket, thrown a rod???
Serious, any information would be reeally helpful!! ;)

nick4592 09-22-2007 08:41 AM

[QUOTE=rkaid;170027]*BUMP BUMP*

No ones ever known anyone to blow a EJ20G motor? Most forums are full of story's (unfortunately hehehe)
Surely people have crack a ring land or two, split a liner, spat a head gasket, thrown a rod???
Serious, any information would be reeally helpful!! ;)[/QUOTE]


I have seen a lot of crushed Pistons from over boosting and the mis-use of Nitrous...

rkaid 09-22-2007 10:47 AM

[QUOTE=nick4592;170045]I have seen a lot of crushed Pistons from over boosting and the mis-use of Nitrous...[/QUOTE]
Good stuff Nick, Stock motors I take it?
I’m kinda trying to separate “normal chamber pressure failures” and “detonation induced spikes of pressure”
Over boost - turbo goes momentary outa its efficiency, heats up the intake charge wicked, compounded with the ECU hitting some un-mapped lean cells - det det bang.
Nitrous is interesting though as the cooler charge, i woulda thought, should suppress the det a little. If the popped Nitrous motors are purely from too much natural cylinder pressure (read slow progressive flame propagation, not the super imposing of two fronts when detonating) then would be good to know more details of that failure.

- For those interested .. or bored… I try to distinguish det failures from normal ones because I find, with more and more people into cars (specially Japanese imports here in Aus) the % of misguided people making mistakes has gone up crazy. Trying to get good information is hard.
Fuel pump failure, a clogged injector, a worn out snapped cam belt are all scenarios that can mash a motor real quick if under load at the time. Though catastrophic, the cases are almost always completely irrelevant when trying to ascertain the strength of a given motor. The crystalline matrix of ferrous materials combined with the reciprocating / flat plane movement induced resonance in a motor means an item will generally withstand a greater maximum load if its progressively introduced, rather then a sharp spike, IE; combustion motor detonation

Id like to think, the precautions I take when modifying a car lower the chance of these simple failures to almost zero; hence the reason im looking for the power ppl are making in a properly setup stock EJ20G. There’s really no such thing as HP, or KW, it’s a resultant number, made from the twisting effect on the crank from a combustion event (the fact those combustion events occur more rapidly as the revs rise is ladi la) This is why I think about cylinder pressure, and perfecting each burn

I’m finding my mates Subaru interesting cus it’s a whole different motor, developed under completely different guidelines, budget restraints then the Nissans and Rotary’s that mates have.
Nissan and Toyota at the time, structurally over engineered many of its engines, (even those that would find resting place in cheap family hatch’s) in the late 80’s due to Japans intent of owning Motorsport at the time (To beat Europe’s finest). This allowed them to then dress the motor up in different guises to suit different cars. SR20DE in a hatch, SR20DET in Silvia’s, and course the quad throttle bodied, solid lifter version in the GTiR.The different versions of the RB are well known, from NA 2.0L family car, to 3.0L Australian sedan, from turbo RB25DET in a Cefiro to the RB26DETT in the GTR and Stagea 260RS. This inherent engineered strength changed things around drastically. I can still rem reading my cousins first car magazines, 15yo, ‘97 about various mid 80’s turbochargered cars, it seemed a lot of the focus when modifying was stopping the thing from spitting a head gasket, over heating or cracking a block liner. The head gasket of the day, was akin to Subaru purposely using soft clutch friction plates in their cars, so it would take the load and slip first, instead of shearing gearbox gear sets. New tech brought on multilayer metal head gaskets, better designed / cast waterjackets to prevent “hot spot” induced detonation, head quash zones that worked better to promote better charge turbulence and then stronger coil on plug ignition systems to produce in cylinder plasma spawn like never seen in the OEM world! Just like a breaking water encatchment, pistons would next take the brunt. RB26’s come to mind (haha whoops). If stock, well tuned and in good nick, when heavily loaded (large turbo, big boost, strong cylinder burn) they wont do a gasket, or a piston ring land, or a bearing, or even a rod; they actually reach the working load of the rod bolts. Rod missing a cap makes good work of a block ( not to say this was done on purpose) You lucky f_ckers had Toyata selling 2JZGTE clad Supra, so you know well about the strength of those motors when stock 
The Japanese bigs were all able to develop this production car motor hardware on tracks, funded buy the 80’s insatiable thirst for automotive tarmac racing, I think Subaru missed the wave, and it took them a few more years to make the EJ20T a serious unit, capable of making the 250-300hp/Litre power needed. A workshop not far from me has the worlds most powerful EJ, 540kw at all fours or something crazy.

This is all moot really, a built EJ20T with pistons of a metallurgical and structural decency is on the cards anyway, its just always interesting to see how far you can take a setup, hence me looking around the net.

Apologies if the caffeine fuelled rambles been offensive :)

Cheer'oss

nick4592 09-23-2007 08:44 AM

Well...I don't really have a good answer for you...but I am sure that you can find one here [url]www.awdpirates.net[/url] there are a bunch of Subby Guru's on that site


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