STi #4 ringlands blown! Time to build it! - Page 2 - Subaru WRX Forum
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#16 Old 02-25-2011, 08:11 PM
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Also I've made the decision to install some 1000cc Injector Dynamics injectors and a Walbro 255 lb/min fuel pump. True Tune (who's going to tune the car) is going to hook me up with the injectors for $500, and the fuel pump and a couple things to install it for $100. The dyno tune is going to be $400 including a base map to break in the car. My tuner said he can scale the injectors back to idle like butter, and I'll have them in there for when I decide I haven't gone big enough. At least that's the way I see it.

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#17 Old 02-25-2011, 09:43 PM
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Looked at the deatschwerks pump?

Just a thought.

-Chris
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#18 Old 02-25-2011, 10:30 PM
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I haven't. I looked at their injectors, but not the pump. I didn't know if there were any real benefits between the Walbro and others. . . I know that sounds naive, I just hadn't given any thought to it. After I look around I'll post back.

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#19 Old 02-25-2011, 11:24 PM
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DW flows more and maintains flow better as fuel pressure increases. It's about $170 for the pump and subaru install kit, but it outperforms the Walbro in every way. Plus it's 100% E100 compatible, so it'll never die from ethanol like the walbro can.

-Chris
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#20 Old 03-01-2011, 04:15 PM
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It sounds like you really did your homework. With you and Chris's help. It sounds like it should be up and running like a champ once its done.

Off topic: A member on this forum Jave, blew his engine up on a Stock 2 OTS map a ways back. He hasn't been on the forums in forever, but even a OTS map can harm a engine. Its happened and is why a protune is always better for your car than a OTS map. Granted as long as the tuner isn't garbage and knows his way around a Subaru pretty well. Its why finding a good tuner is worth its weight in gold and shouldn't be taken lightly.

Kirt
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"When in doubt...flat out" - Colin McRae
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#21 Old 03-11-2011, 10:30 PM
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Kirt- I wish I had just taken that to heart long ago! Live and learn.

I talked with True Tune today, and I'm actually set for a little bit more money than originally expected, but within reason. I'm still in for the Injector Dynamics injectors with the pig tails for the Subie for $500, the tune, with a map for Ethanol and a map for 91 octane. He's setting up a base map to run WG pressure while I break in the car. He's also getting me a hybrid boost controller. He says it'll work great, and I'm looking at $1400 with the 2 dyno-tuned maps, base map, injectors, DeatschWerks pump (which is a little more than the Walbro - $170), and the boost controller. I don't know what's hybrid about it though...

I was thinking I'd be maxing the stock turbo around 350HP running ethanol, (because of the injectors, ELH, and TBE), but he's told me that's not realistic, and that I should plan on pushing around 300-310 even on ethanol. That's got me thinking I might as well use my tax return money (which just came today) to buy myself a 20G. The end goal I was going to work up to was going to be in the range of 400HP when I upgraded the turbo and intercooler. Do you think I ought to just go for it? I can get the Blouch 20G-XT from FBP with the 8cm housing for just under 1500 right now. I was looking at that turbo and the Dom 2.0 as well. It looks like the 2.0 would be cheaper, and according to FBP, it's capable of more power. Anyone know about the Dominator and why I wouldn't want that turbo with my power goals in mind?

Lastly, in all honesty, most of my homework is done on this site, and I'm happy to cheat by copying other people's homework (like Chris's). I can't wait for it to run like a champ again.

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#22 Old 03-11-2011, 11:29 PM
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Jason made like 335whp/370tq on his STI on E85 with the stock vf39 FWIW.

I was originally looking at the 20g-xt. Guy I know made 380/350 in Denver on E85 at like 18psi. They kept the boost down to keep the transmission safe (his decision), but cranked to 22psi that thing will be nipping on the heels of 400whp/400tq at elevation.

In my experience though, get a slightly larger turbo than you need. In this case, maybe think about the 1.5xt-r or 2.5xt-r. They're basically ball bearing 20g-xt's and they run about 1600 new.

-Chris

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#23 Old 03-13-2011, 08:35 PM
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The Dom 1.5XT-R is basically built for 2.0 wrxs. It'll work on a 2.5, but you'll spool the crap out of it really quick. If your running E85 a 2.5XT-R should easily get you there. Especially with your Dual-AVCS (I am jealous...haha). A Dom 2.0XT is bigger than a 2.5XT-R but its thrust bearing and a ball bearing turbos spool quicker. I really contemplating running a E85 map, I'm going to talk to my tuner about it.

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#24 Old 03-13-2011, 09:22 PM
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Not really... The 1.5xt-r is 48 lb/min, bigger than the new 20g-xt. They're almost the same turbo, just one is ball bearing and slightly bigger and one is journal. Your 2.5xt-r is 49 lb/min so not much bigger than either.

IMO a turbo made for the 2.0 is an 18g sized turbo in the 43 or less lb/min range.

If you want to spool like crazy talk to MOSC lol... 16g on an STI, surprised he hasn't fixed that.

BTW, Jason is putting a 1.5xt-r on his STI so see how it works for him. Also, blouch has the 20g-xt on sale on their website right now for 1350.

http://www.bptstore.com/Subaru-WRXST...rger_p_12.html

Oh and the 2.0 xt is just way too big for a journal bearing turbo. It would be ok for a drag application, but something that big and journal bearing sucks in transient response. If you ever drive in a car with an fp green you'll understand.

-Chris
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#25 Old 03-14-2011, 01:02 AM
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Dang. I originally suggested to my tuner that I was inclined to get a "Polka Pickle" and he was the one who steered me to the TD06-20G, but after looking around just a little, I don't know if that's going to cut it. I like the 20G-XT and the Polka Pickle best. The 2.5XT-R isn't on any sale, and is 1700, while the 20G-XT is $300 less (after the feed line is added). They advertise a 20 HP difference between the 2, but those are crank numbers. If I'm buying a turbo, I don't want to spend all my time wishing I had gotten a different one. I'm starting to lean more toward the 2.5 again, just because it should spool faster and continue to build power until redline.

Now I just need to wait until I get a job again. I am at least lucky enough to have saved up enough with my last job that I can afford to rebuild this all and sustain myself for a few more months, but as I have 2 promising jobs potentially giving me offers this week, that will determine if I get the turbo now and just get it all built and tuned at the same time, as I won't need the savings to survive for a few months. I hate waiting! At least I've had plenty of time to browse online for my parts before pulling the trigger on most of them, huh?

Oh, and I also ordered my TGV deletes yesterday, by the recommendation of my tuner. That will happen during the build as well. Now I just feel retarded to think that I'm not budgeting for a bigger intercooler. I don't know if I just want to go front mount when it comes time, or get a bigger top mount, or if it's even just worth waiting on that too. . . I just keep adding on more parts and more cost. It's terrible.

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#26 Old 03-14-2011, 03:46 PM
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Chris, its what Blouch advertises the 1.5XT-R as. Just saying...I know the lb/min is bigger. I wouldn't run a Dom 2.0XT either; a Dom 3.0XT-R is the same thing and ball bearing.

Brad, it all depends on what you want and where your goals limit you too. My tuner chad has run TMICs up to 400-425whp already on subarus. Upgraded ones mind you, not stock. If I went any bigger turbo, I'd be going FMIC.

The E85 debate got killed off from Chad. He said for a dyno run yes, otherwise he wouldn't want to make a map for daily driving. Because of how unregulated it is and everytime you fill up it the mix could and usely is different. He said I'd probably throw more CELs with it because of the difference of the fill up everytime. What are you guys planning on doing about that? Has your tuners planned on giving it some head room or a laid back tune on it? If that's true about the mix being different everytime you fill up. Then I understand why he wouldn't want to do it.

Edit Side Note: I still have my TGVs with my 2.5XT-R, Chad said last year that they know how to work with it and keep them on there. He said it'd help with warm ups and it only really gives a few hp up top. Not a big deal in his book.

Kirt
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#27 Old 03-14-2011, 05:50 PM
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It was in 08 that the TGV's were changed to cycle even after the car was completely warmed up. The reason I know that is because while Subaru had my car, they thought that the AP had caused them to start doing that, then when they talked with Tech Line they found out they should do that, starting with 08 models. I guess previous models only "generated tumble" on a cold start, then like a thermostat, stayed open after that until the car cooled completely. That's what my dealer said, but they couldn't diagnose a blown ring land, so take it for what it's worth.

I'll ask about E85, as that is a concern I haven't looked into. My tuner runs it and swears by it, so I'll report back after I ask him and let you know. My END goal with the car is around 400HP. I have no intentions of making the car any more than that, power-wise. I was really not planning on going that big this fast either, but I don't want to spend money on parts that I'll be replacing again later at this point. That's the real reason I'm even taking that jump to my end goal all at once. I'll start modding the suspension next, really just focusing on sways and bushings all around.

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#28 Old 03-14-2011, 06:59 PM
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Wow, nice information Brad. I didn't know that. Any news on what your tuner or Chris's tuner on E85 would be great. That's the only reason I wrote that in there. I've been hearing people swearing by it and figured I'd ask my tuner about it. Now, I'm waiting for Chris's responce.

Kirt
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#29 Old 03-14-2011, 08:36 PM
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Speaking of E85, a friend of mine has just now started having issues with his EVO VIII (with most of the tuning based on E85). He bought it in Florida where he is from (tuned on their E85) and drove it here to Kansas. There arent alot of places to get E85 here, but on his second fill up from the station he has been having issues with lose of power and other fuel related problems. He knows his stuff os he runs a 1st GEN eclipse with a 2.3 stroker and FP Green on it. Just putting it out there that it seems his issues are fuel related cause E85 is regulated that well. Thats why I really dont plan on running it myself.

Joshua
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#30 Old 03-14-2011, 09:45 PM
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Just get one of these:

Echecker - E85 Fuel Test Tube

Easy as pie to test at every fill up. The only real issue with E85 is that old E85 will absorb more water than old gas will, and winter blend E85 can vary a good amount.

The real benefit to E85 is obviously the higher octane rating as well as a cooling effect the fuel has in the combustion process. Given the same boost level most cars will see 30 hp and tq out of just tuning on E85 because of the timing that can be run with it. Add in the fact that you can typically increase boost and you can easily net 30-50whp/tq by going to E85. My way of describing the difference is ride in a regular gas vf39'd wrx or STI, and then ride in a WRX/STI with a 20g. Jason's car is on the verge of being "fast" on my scale and he's making 335/370 on COBB's mustang.

Also, not sure if this is legit or not, but here's how I think of it. E85 has been proven to speed up spool time compared to gasoline. I'm thinking this is because you burn 25% or so more of it, which would result in more gases being expelled for each combustion cycle. More gases out of the cylinder=more gases going through the turbo=faster spool.

Maybe that's not how it works but it makes sense. Plus is smells gooooooooood.

-Chris
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