Boo's 5 year plan. Let's talk internals! (get in here Keith, Kirt, John...exct) - Page 2 - Subaru WRX Forum
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#16 Old 10-12-2013, 05:40 PM
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Yes piston coatings do help with cold starts. It is usually one of those topics that gets beat to death from people with different views, but hey I have seen it work and I have it done on mine. Crank wise, just about any 2.5L STi crank will work. The new ones have a revised treatment on them, but I have seen people build motors making 500+whp using the older cranks without issues. Just make sure you get a phase 2 crank.
To be honest I am not one to buy into the, "You need this, this, this and this." to make a motor build more power. Truth be told other than pistons and a couple other odds and ends my current motor runs mostly stock Subaru parts.
Bearings are another debated topic, many people run ACL, I run Clevite in mine and haven't seen any issues. Just be careful on which bearings you buy. ACL offers a few different "styles" of bearings and I'd have to dig them up, but stick with the basic rebuild bearings and you'll be fine.

p.s. Oh and for the love of all that is holy, do not get a crank turned or reground, just buy a new one.
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#17 Old 10-12-2013, 05:47 PM
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So to answer you first post;
Quote:
Originally Posted by boo-key bear View Post
Forged pistons yes
connecting rods? stock Sti
Bearings? ACL, Clevite
Machine work required if you bore or hone the block
AOS Meh I dont run one, but probably should
ID 1000cc injectors (I plan on going e85) probably but not really need for your power level
parallel fuel mod no
aftermarket fuel rails no
20g turbo? minimum
gs tmic, splitter, i/c hoses yes
sti 6speed trans not so much
r180 rear diff no
dccd controller no unless you go 6 speed
new clutch (oem) and possibly lightweight flywheel upgraded clutch and yes
oem water pump yes
oem timing belt and tensionersis yes
Studs? meh go either way. I don't
gs thermostat no
killer b oil pickup and windage tray GOD no
Head work? no
stiffer engine and trans mounts recommended
gaskets? stock
cobb ss with kartboy bushings
Hope this has been of some help to you.

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#18 Old 10-12-2013, 11:27 PM
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Kind of hard to read the green there but I agree with you Keith!

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#19 Old 10-12-2013, 11:37 PM
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I'm pretty set in doing the 6 speed swap as opposed to a gearset in my wrx trans. So Keith, are you saying that a upgraded clutch is okay in a 6 speed? I wasn't sure if it was a no no like in a stock 5 speed. I like the idea of buying another shortblock to build while mine is still in the car. I think I will do that. Why do you say GOD NO to the killer b oil pickup and windage tray? I have heard nothing but good things about them. I have also heard a lot about the possibility of the stock pickup breaking. Would I use Oem head gaskets also? When is it nessecary to use a thicker head gasket if it ever really is nessecary? I am also curious what the benefits of a destroked 2.5 and why you prefer to run yours that way Keith. I'm not thinking of going that route just curious cause I've never really heard of it.

Kirt...I looked up the swaintech coatings. Man, that sounds like some good stuff! I would definantly want it! Damnit, enjoy your honeymoon and get off the forums! We can talk about this stuff anytime but, you only get one honeymoon!

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#20 Old 10-13-2013, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan21 View Post
Kind of hard to read the green there but I agree with you Keith!
There is a long standing reason for me using green...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boo-key bear
I'm pretty set in doing the 6 speed swap as opposed to a gearset in my wrx trans. So Keith, are you saying that a upgraded clutch is okay in a 6 speed? I wasn't sure if it was a no no like in a stock 5 speed. I like the idea of buying another shortblock to build while mine is still in the car. I think I will do that. Why do you say GOD NO to the killer b oil pickup and windage tray? I have heard nothing but good things about them. I have also heard a lot about the possibility of the stock pickup breaking. Would I use Oem head gaskets also? When is it nessecary to use a thicker head gasket if it ever really is nessecary? I am also curious what the benefits of a destroked 2.5 and why you prefer to run yours that way Keith. I'm not thinking of going that route just curious cause I've never really heard of it.
I upgraded my clutch on the stock 5 speed...6 speed is just built a little different and designed to handle more power so I don't see why not. A lot of what you hear of people blowing up their trans is lack of driving ability or just being stupid. The reason for saying what I did with the Killer B stuff is your not going to be making enough power to require much of anything over stock. Hell I run the stock stuff and I can run a 9k redline. If your worried about the pickup tube, again more fluff, then have it tack welded. Pretty simple, but again what has worked for me over the years is just that. I am looking at trying to save you money in the long run and trust me you'll thank me in the end. I run OEM gaskets, no need for a thicker head gasket unless you have the heads shaved or want to run a lower compression, but that doesn't really lower it much. The 2.34 is simply a rev happy motor. On a GT35 you can make 450whp on pump gas and rev to 9k easy. You can do it with a 2.5L, but it was the route I took from the parts I had on hand.
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#21 Old 10-13-2013, 10:53 AM
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Crawford Perfomance runs 500 whp STIs with a stage three clutch on a stock STI 6 spd...the 6 spd is built by a German company that builds transmissions for tanks. Is the entire drivetrain and gears bullet proof on a STI? No...but, it's a lot tougher than the 5 spd in the 2nd gens.

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#22 Old 10-13-2013, 08:17 PM
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When you get your block bored, ask to have the least amount of material removed as possible to maintain strength. I didn't compare and contrast every single part that went inside my engine, so I probably can't help you very much in that department. I can give you a detailed list of what I have and I know the rationale behind some of my parts, but the majority was just a package put together for me by IAG when they did my build. It's a fairly common setup and it's been reliable so far (26k miles and counting).

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#23 Old 10-14-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psinuse View Post
There is a long standing reason for me using green...



I upgraded my clutch on the stock 5 speed...6 speed is just built a little different and designed to handle more power so I don't see why not. A lot of what you hear of people blowing up their trans is lack of driving ability or just being stupid. I am looking at trying to save you money in the long run and trust me you'll thank me in the end.
Now I'm up in the air again about upgraded 5 speed or a 6 speed. I did some rough estimates last night and with everything we have eliminated the need for a build like this won't be as bad as I thought, of course i still haven't factored in machine work on the block, assembly, and tuning. I'm sure there will be some extras here and there that will pop up. Glad you talked me out of a lot of not needed parts and you haven't even been that grumpy about it Seriously, you have been a great help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by man show View Post
I can give you a detailed list of what I have and I know the rationale behind some of my parts.
That would be great if you could. Pm, email, or posted in this thread works for me. Whatever is easiest for you. Thanks!

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#24 Old 10-14-2013, 11:17 AM
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Coating the skirts on pistons is more to benefit break in than anything else. By 10k miles the coating is mostly worn off.

If 350 whp is your goal then you won't need E85 to hit that on a 20G. 93 should work fine. I also don't think you should need to go right off the bat building the motor. You stock internals aren't guaranteed to fail. And if you do I wouldn't use 2618 pistons. You don't need them and if this is your DD it would be more of a hassle and more expensive down the line because you will have to rebuild again later.
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#25 Old 10-14-2013, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boo-key bear View Post
Now I'm up in the air again about upgraded 5 speed or a 6 speed. I did some rough estimates last night and with everything we have eliminated the need for a build like this won't be as bad as I thought, of course i still haven't factored in machine work on the block, assembly, and tuning. I'm sure there will be some extras here and there that will pop up. Glad you talked me out of a lot of not needed parts and you haven't even been that grumpy about it Seriously, you have been a great help!
Well like I said I would hate to see you spend money on things you don't need. To be honest I use to be that way, back when I was building V8s. Had to have the best of everything, yet some guy with a stock motor with noting more than pistons and a cam was right on my but every time. You learn over time why you don't need to waste money. As far as the trans goes at 350whp a 5 speed with some good gears would be fine.

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#26 Old 10-14-2013, 06:18 PM
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I copied and pasted most of this from a previous PM to another member:

$553.40 = Manley Platinum Series pistons (4, 99.75 mm)
$393.80 = Manley H-Beam connecting rod set (I-Beams would have been complete overkill)
$381.56 = 2.5L OEM Nitrided crankshaft
$52.10 = ACL Race rod bearing set (52 mm journal w/ extra oil clearance)
$102.00 = ACL Race main bearing set
$35.86 = engine case bolts (10)
$39.40 = engine case sealant
$313.72 = engine gasket set
$32.94 = oil feed lines w/ filter, raised head (2)
$194.00 = ARP head stud kit
$20.80 = PDP motor oil 5W-30 (5)
$44.95 = Royal Purple break-in oil (5)
$93.84 = Purolator PureONE oil filters (6)
$35.90 = coolant
$49.99 = IAG air pump block off plates (did the TGV deletes as a "while you're there" mod)
$299.99 = IAG TGV deletes
$1,050.00 = Kelford 264 Cams (not at all necessary)
$193.00 = Killer B ultimate oil pickup (stock parts known to fail)
$169.95 = STi 11 mm oil pump (probably overkill)
$2,370.00 = build labor (30 hours)
$300.00 = bore and hone block
$4.50 = oil plate gaskets (2)
$119.47 = OEM oil pan (replaced as a safety precaution because I wanted to be absolutely sure there was no metal in the oiling system since I cracked a piston and lost compression in half the engine which was the reason for the rebuild in the first place)
$286.15 = OEM oil cooler w/ gasket
$12.23 = pilot bearing
$15.00 = GT Spec up pipe to turbo gasket
$19.00 = GT Spec turbo to downpipe gasket
$15.00 = GT Spec manifold to up pipe gasket
$7.99 = Vibrant 3" 2 bolt exhaust gasket
$157.50 = Invidia up pipe, polished stainless w/ EGT bung (another "while you're there" mod)
$59.83 = GrimmSpeed 3 mm phenolic spacer (another "while you're there" mod - I went with the thinner one to minimize clearance issues which sometimes occur with the thicker ones)
$10.80 = lower intake manifold gaskets (2 - one between the block and the phenolic spacer and another one between the phenolic spacer and the intake manifold)
$316.00 = set valve lash for new cams (4 hours)
$33.92 = NGK one step colder spark plugs (4)
$145.90 = SPT engine mounts (2) (yet another "while you're there" mod)
$40.00 = IAG billet half moon set (If I recall, the stock pieces are plastic - they're basically plugs to fill the gaps created when the factory originally machined the older engines)
$134.85 = Royal Purple break-in oil (15)
$45.99 = Motul 5W-40 X-Cess (5L container, used after break-in, found much cheaper on Amazon.com in bulk)

I left the prices I paid in there as a benchmark so you can hopefully find things cheaper

Like it was already mentioned, there will be other costs associated with your particular build (supporting mods for whatever turbo you decide to run, turbo, tune, and possibly other miscellaneous tidbits).

The break-in period is the most painful part, besides paying for everything, of course. The odometer seems to tick by sooo slowly, but you'll have to keep a close eye on it anyway and change your oil at the recommended intervals. You'll also have to use the engine to decelerate the car as much as you possibly can and refrain from driving the same speed for more than 30 seconds to a minute at a time. This can be very annoying for cars behind you, but it's for a good cause

Also, if you plan on doing everything yourself, make sure you talk to your tuner ahead of time about getting a base map to use during your break-in period.

John
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Jorge Carrillo Tuned (365 whp/340 wtq)
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#27 Old 10-14-2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man show
$316.00 = set valve lash for new cams (4 hours)
HOLY ****:eek: Man am I glad I can do that myself.!Notfunny!
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#28 Old 10-14-2013, 07:48 PM
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You're on your way to saving money already - Keith can explain how to adjust your valves

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#29 Old 10-14-2013, 09:36 PM
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You're on your way to saving money already - Keith can explain how to adjust your valves
It's not really that hard to do, just buying the right damn buckets is what cost so much. Those things are $21 a piece now.

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#30 Old 10-15-2013, 09:02 AM
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If you want a 6-speed, you should seriously consider (price out) selling your car and getting an STi.

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